ILLUMINATION

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Iconoclast, Apr 6, 2016.

  1. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    ILLUMINATION
    THE HOLY SPIRIT GIVES SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING by J.I. Packer


    The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1 CORINTHIANS 2:14

    The knowledge of divine things to which Christians are called is more than a formal acquaintance with biblical words and Christian ideas. It is a realizing of the reality and relevance of those activities of the triune God to which Scripture testifies. Such awareness is natural to none, familiar with Christian ideas though they may be (like “the man without the Spirit” in 1 Cor. 2:14 who cannot receive what Christians tell him, or the blind leaders of the blind of whom Jesus speaks so caustically in Matt. 15:14, or like Paul himself before Christ met him on the Damascus road). Only the Holy Spirit, searcher of the deep things of God (1 Cor. 2:10), can bring about this realization in our sin-darkened minds and hearts. That is why it is called “spiritual understanding” (spiritual means “Spirit-given,” Col. 1:9; cf. Luke 24:25; 1 John 5:20). Those who, along with sound verbal instruction, “have an anointing from the Holy One... know the truth” (1 John 2:20).

    The work of the Spirit in imparting this knowledge is called “illumination,” or enlightening. It is not a giving of new revelation, but a work within us that enables us to grasp and to love the revelation that is there before us in the biblical text as heard and read, and as explained by teachers and writers. Sin in our mental and moral system clouds our minds and wills so that we miss and resist the force of Scripture. God seems to us remote to the point of unreality, and in the face of God’s truth we are dull and apathetic. The Spirit, however, opens and unveils our minds and attunes our hearts so that we understand (Eph. 1:17-18; 3:18-19; 2 Cor. 3:14-16; 4:6). As by inspiration he provided Scripture truth for us, so now by illumination he interprets it to us. Illumination is thus the applying of God’s revealed truth to our hearts, so that we grasp as reality for ourselves what the sacred text sets forth.

    Illumination, which is a lifelong ministry of the Holy Spirit to Christians, starts before conversion with a growing grasp of the truth about Jesus and a growing sense of being measured and exposed by it. Jesus said that the Spirit would “convict the world” of the sin of not believing in him, of the fact that he was in the right with God the Father (as his welcome back to heaven proved), and of the reality of judgment both here and hereafter (John 16:8-11). This threefold conviction is still God’s means of making sin repulsive and Christ adorable in the eyes of persons who previously loved sin and cared nothing for the divine Savior.

    The way to benefit fully from the Spirit’s ministry of illumination is by serious Bible study, serious prayer, and serious response in obedience to whatever truths one has been shown already. This corresponds to Luther’s dictum that three things make a theologian: oratio (prayer), meditatio (thinking in God’s presence about the text), and tentatio (trial, the struggle for biblical fidelity in the face of pressure to disregard what Scripture says).
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  2. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    From Preceptaustin;
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  4. JonC

    JonC
    Expand Collapse
    Lifelong Disciple
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 28, 2001
    Messages:
    6,942
    Likes Received:
    370
    Good points here. While special revelation and inspiration are important concepts, I think that sometimes illumination is confused with special revelation and inspiration. We do not look for new prophesies, or new revelations. We do not look for new divinely inspired writings. But we are dependent on the illuminating of the Holy Spirit to see.
     
  5. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
    1 CORINTHIANS 2:14


    14 But natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. (NASB)

    Here we have two translations of the same verse. Natural man has been rewritten to read "man without the Spirit." And "from the Spirit of God" has been altered to read "that come from the Spirit of God."


    What did Luther say about tentatio? " Tentatio"- trial, the struggle for biblical fidelity in the face of pressure to disregard what Scripture says.

    Does the verse say "all things from the Spirit of God?" Nope For men of flesh can understand spiritual milk. 1 Corinthians 3:1-3.
     
  6. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    Your post seems to be going out of its way to prove the point that is made in this OP.......thanks
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    I like the ease in which you just casually add to the word of God changing the whole meaning of a text and you think nothing of it you've done this about 20 times in the past year just add words change the meaning and you make it like it's no big deal
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  8. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    I did not add "all" to 1 Cor. 2:14, and I did not remove using spiritual milk to speak as to men of flesh either.
    Perhaps if you addressed what I did say, you might pass the "tentatio" test. Luther would be proud.
     
  9. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    Here is a hint for you Dr.TM.....
    If it is Spiritual. ......a person needs the indwelling Spirit to get it correctly......then there is no need to add the word all in red ......the verse stands as written and is understood the same way by ALL believers...
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    LOL, here is a hint - if you claim "all" is the meaning, ignoring the context, you are adding to scripture and failing the tentatio text.

    But I, brothers, could not address you as spiritual people, but as people of the flesh, as infants in Christ. 2 I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not ready for it.

    Obviously some spiritual things, "milk" can be received by "people of the flesh." Again the test is to accept the whole message of God and not mutilate it.
     
  11. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728


    Again my friend you prove the OP to be true.
    as men of the Spirit should not behave like men of the flesh......there are only two kinds of men......Spiritual or carnal.....
    You need illumination on these scriptures to get it right.....or you will post more and more twaddle as they say....or as you would say....lol....

    Your unilluminated posting suggests natural man apart from the Spirit .....Can....understand.....when the text declares ....HE CANNOT......
    Do you see the problem? ??? It is your idea which is a wild distortion. ...
     
  12. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    Getting it right to obvious to any who study the passage. You have no answer so you post disparagement.
    Paul spoke to those unable to receive spiritual meat as to men of flesh. QED
     
  13. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Except for the fact Paul isn't comparing the saints at Corinth with those to whom he is referring to in 1 Corinthians 2:14. Therefore you are conflating the two as one in the same. They are not one in the same persons.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    We also have this passage which shows forth the same truth:

    John answered, “A person cannot receive even one thing unless it is given him from heaven. - John 3:27.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. agedman

    agedman
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2011
    Messages:
    4,258
    Likes Received:
    186
    Van,
    Perhaps you are confusing those who are unsaved, lost, and (shown by the Scriptures) as having not a smidgen of the Holy Spirit with those who are "babes in Christ." The "in Christ" is the key, not that they are infants, and not that they are in the flesh. The "in Christ" shows them as NOT of the unredeemed, the lost, but those who are redeemed, are saved, and are "in Christ." They are merely to immature to be nourished by more than milk.

    As such, the thinking that those who are without Christ can in some manner be a partaker of the things of the Spirit, is just not supportable.

    Btw, the "tentantio" (struggle) of the believer is not a "test" it is a joy. For James (1:2) states that the believer is to count such things as all joy (or with great joy).

    Luther used to self - flagellate in some attempt to gain recognition by God, but such things are not of the Spirit. He sought for the peace of God diligently and it was denied him (read "The Monk who Shook the World"). What Luther had to acquire was not his to earn, but a gift given, and from then on he served with Joy no matter the pain and cost.

    Amazing what maturity will allow one to choose for their daily diet.
     
  16. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    hey acted that

    Look at what you bolded...VAN.....

    This is the exact point.....
    Paul wanted to address them as mature spiritual people......[but he says he could not.....?] WHY???
    Did they stop being believers? Did they no longer have the Spirit of God indwelling them?
    They were still believers, they still had the Spirit of God indwelling them......but in this one sin of sectarianism they were acting like mere men, men of flesh, unsaved natural men.....
    They were not ....but they acted that way and needed to be rebuked....thats all....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    This is an illuminated response.....all who correctly read the passage with understanding will see something similar.ThumbsupThumbsupThumbsup
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Van

    Van
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Messages:
    9,516
    Likes Received:
    49
    What is illuminating is the complete rejection of passages that differ from your presuppositions. Paul addressed newborn Christians as "men of flesh." Thus "men of flesh" can receive spiritual milk.

    No amount of disparagement, or change of subject can alter this truth.

    Verse after verse teaches the lost can understand and respond to spiritual milk, i.e. the gospel of Christ.
    Three of the four soils responded to the gospel, thus receiving and understanding the gospel. No verse or passage taken contextually supports your fiction. None, zip nada.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  19. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,379
    Likes Received:
    728
    This is why you get it wrong each and everytime......
    You get it wrong here....you get it wrong in MT.13.....you get it wrong everywhere.....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  20. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Wrong yet again. You've proven nothing but the fact that you tear Scriptures up to MAKE them support your presupps.

    Paul not once made a babe in Christ equal to 'the natural man' who is lost. You're melding two things together that are not one in the same.

    Just look above, you argue the lost can respond to spiritual milk but none who are lost even desire this 'milk' of the Word. But this is how twisted you get, coming up with foolish statements unsubstantiated from Scripture that the lost respond to spiritual milk. Hang it up bro, you're way off track. In fact you're derailed.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1

Share This Page

Loading...