I'm Curious..Which One Am I?

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by WonderingOne, Apr 4, 2003.

  1. WonderingOne

    WonderingOne
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    I am serious when I say I don't know whether to call myself Calvinist or Arminian. I will state what my beliefs are, and maybe someone can give me the proper label.

    I believe:

    That it is man's nature to sin, because of the fall of Adam.

    That Christ was God Incarnate, was sinless, and that He died, a Perfect Sacrifice, for the atonement of sin.

    That He rose from the dead and ascended into heaven, and will return someday to judge all mankind.

    That all who repent, trust in Him, and keep His commandments will be spared from the coming wrath.

    That once one has trusted in Him, they are His, and cannot be plucked out of His hands. OSAS.

    That this promise is meant for Whosoever Will.

    This is a very basic outline of what I believe, so what say you? Which am I?
     
  2. KenH

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    Since OSAS is based on Calvinism, I would say you are a Calvinist if you are consistent in your theology.
     
  3. William C

    William C
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    If you were a Calvinists you would know it.

    If you don't know it they you are some form of an Arminian. People become Arminian believers from reading the works of God and then they usually become Calvinistic from reading the works of man. (that's my opinion)

    These are just clarifing labels, very few on this board actually believe everything that either of these two groups originally taught. Keeping that in mind I am fairly certain you would fit somewhere in the Arminian camp.

    Welcome. [​IMG]
     
  4. KenH

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    The truth is that people become Calvinistic believers from reading the works of God and then they usually become Arminian from reading the works of man. (that's my opinion)

    Welcome. [​IMG]
     
  5. Yelsew

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    WonderingOne,
    Seems to me you are Christian! Forget about the devicive factions of Calvinism and Arminianism, they have no bearing on your salvation.
     
  6. Yelsew

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    As usual you are incorrect, holding a bias based on the teachings of man.
     
  7. KenH

    KenH
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    Oh? And just what are you and Brother Bill holding? [​IMG]
     
  8. Yelsew

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    Oh? And just what are you and Brother Bill holding? [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Since I have never read either Calvin or Arminius teachings except the posted snip-its on this BBS, I am not influenced by either.
     
  9. KenH

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    If you have ever read or heard comments or sermons or lessons on the Bible by a man other than an inspired writer in the Bible, you are influenced. [​IMG]
     
  10. Yelsew

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    If you have ever read or heard comments or sermons or lessons on the Bible by a man other than an inspired writer in the Bible, you are influenced. [​IMG] </font>[/QUOTE]Perhaps, but I do not align myself with them in any way except "sinner saved by God"!
     
  11. Ray Berrian

    Ray Berrian
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    Wondering One,

    Your definition of what you believe is too general to place a label over you as being either Arminian or Calvinistic, with the exception of your view of eternal security. With this exception I believe both Calvinists and Arminians could accept what you said. Your definition is a little like a Bible College that might try to give a general statement so as to please all possible future students.

    I am in agreement with what you said including the fact that someone who is saved is in the hand of the Father, forever. [John 10:27-30]
     
  12. WonderingOne

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    Thank you for all the responses. I suppose I should elaborate somewhat by saying that while I believe that God is all-knowing, and that he knows who will believe and who will not, I don't think He has predestined some of us to believe and some of us not to. I have always thought this belief made me Arminian, but the fact that I believe in OSAS is confusing..that doctrine fits right in with the Calvinist doctrine of Perserverence of the Saints.
     
  13. TheTravelingMinstrel

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    Wrong! I know plenty of people who hold to reformed doctrine but don't know they are 'calvinists'. They are calvinists because they started with scripture and they havn't been fed arminists lies from childhood.
     
  14. KenH

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    Very good observation, WonderingOne. [​IMG] The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is the inescapable conclusion drawn from the other four points of Calvinism. In fact the fifth point is so closely tied to and follows from the preceding four points that I dare to say that only a Calvinist can honestly believe in the preseverance and the preservation of the saints and maintain theological consistency.

    Why must one be a Calvinist to honestly teach the final preservation of the saints? Because this preservation is not dependent upon us, but upon God. In fact all of Calvinistic soteriology is predicated upon the Biblical teaching that salvation, from beginning to end, is not dependent upon us, but upon God.
     
  15. Pete Richert

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    I was an Arminian during my childhood (wasn't really taught either I guess) but become more and more Calvinistic the more I read the Bible for myself. I'm not exactly five point yet, but the more and more I read the Bible the father down the scale I slide. Anway, I have never read anything by Calvin or Luther or whatnight on Calvinism. I did even read ANYTHING by them until about a year ago.
     
  16. William C

    William C
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    Very good observation, WonderingOne. [​IMG] The doctrine of the perseverance of the saints is the inescapable conclusion drawn from the other four points of Calvinism. In fact the fifth point is so closely tied to and follows from the preceding four points that I dare to say that only a Calvinist can honestly believe in the preseverance and the preservation of the saints and maintain theological consistency.

    Why must one be a Calvinist to honestly teach the final preservation of the saints? Because this preservation is not dependent upon us, but upon God. In fact all of Calvinistic soteriology is predicated upon the Biblical teaching that salvation, from beginning to end, is not dependent upon us, but upon God.
    </font>[/QUOTE]I have always tried to hold on to the fifth point as do many quasi Arminian Baptist, but I'm not sure the authors of scripture wanted us to be secure in our salvation. It seems to me that they wanted you to doubt it if our actions or fruits didn't testify to that fact. They seem to consistantly ask the believers to question their salvation and to test it. They warn believers of falling away and becoming hardened in sin. They (including Christ) taught that one who doesn't forgive others will lose their forgiveness. They teach that they can be cut off even after being grafted in. They continually use phrases like "if you continue in the faith," or "if you perserve to the end you will be saved," which clearly indicates that the authors want their audience to be fearful of that real possiblity. The doctrine of OSAS tends to lesson that threat, thus removing the fear of these verses, thus removing a motivation for obeidence, and gives people who may not be saved a false sense of security because they think if they believed it once they'll always be saved regardless of their behavior.

    However, I do recognize the passages that speak of the Holy Spirit's sealing of those who believe (Eph. 1). And I think there can be a strong argument made for the Arminians view of OSAS.
     
  17. Jacob

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    You are somewhere between Calvinism and Arminianism, holding to both the Sovereignty of God and the Free will of man (which makes us responsible). This is the position of 80% of all evnagelical Christians. However, extreme Calvinists will label you an Arminian.

    Jacob.
     
  18. KenH

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    And extreme Arminians would label such a person a Calvinist.
     
  19. Jacob

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    And extreme Arminians would label such a person a Calvinist. </font>[/QUOTE]I doubt it...he said
    Essentially the fundamental difference between the 2 camps is whether there are preselected elect specific individuals who have been predetermind by God to believe.

    Jacob.
     
  20. ScottEmerson

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    And extreme Arminians would label such a person a Calvinist. </font>[/QUOTE]No, extreme Arminians would say he is a moderate (or conservative) Arminians. They will not find in Arminian doctrine (at least the original stuff) where a person can lose his or her salvation.

    Now CoC's, they would probably call him a Calvinist, but according to them, I am one too. I am also apparently going to hell, since I use music and think that a woman speaking in church is an okay thing... at least that's what they've told me.
     

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