I'm sad and disappointed

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by R.D., Jan 18, 2006.

  1. R.D.

    R.D.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm new here-what a fantastic website

    true facts about my church.....

    1. 105 yrs. old... average length of stay for
    pastors is 2.5 yrs.

    2. our Pastor resigned 3 yrs. ago....from then til July of last yr., we had lost 50-55% of our Sunday morning worship attendance

    3. our church went through the Intentional Interim Program(self study, 2003-2004-18 months approx.)

    4. Feb. 2005, church secretary resigns(she was a member of our church)

    5. new Pastor called in July of last yr.

    6. approx. 2 mths later while delivering a message during a funeral for a young adult member of our church(suicide), he says that suicide is an unforgiveable sin

    7. after the new Pastor was here for 4 months, within an 8 week period we lost the Music Director, Pianist, Organist, and Youth Minister

    8. when confronted, new Pastor admits in writing that he allows/approves of his teenage daughter having friends that practice wicca; that he listens to rock&roll/rock music in the church office when noone is around; daughter wears black AC/DC(heavy meatal band) t-shirt to Sunday night youth meeting; disagrees with the "Left Behind" theology-believes the rapture will occur when Jesus comes to establish God's new heaven and earth

    9. after all that we lost, I think, 9 families( all youth families--26+ adults and youth--nearly wiped out the youth program)

    10. because of the reduction in tithes/offerings, the 2006 budget had to be cut. When it came time to choose between cutting moneys sent to missions, 2006 pay raises for the staff, replacing the Youth Minister, replacing the pianist and organist, or cutting out the cleaning lady($13k/yr.), the members voted to keep the cleaning lady and reduce/not replace mission money, Youth Minister, and one of the musicians. There wasn't enough committed members to volunteer to clean our own church so we wouldn't have to reduce mission money or the other ministries within our church(Youth & Music Ministry)


    I'd like to hear your thoughts, especially from pastors?


    May God bless you and your family
     
  2. Shiloh

    Shiloh
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sounds like you have a problem with your pulpit committee. I don't know if you have a family or not but if you do you better find a new church quick!
     
  3. Humblesmith

    Humblesmith
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2005
    Messages:
    698
    Likes Received:
    0
    Leaving missionaries in the field with no support is a bad, bad thing. Consider spending your time helping them get their support back somehow.

    That the pulpit committe would hire someone who doesn't agree with the doctrinal views of the church is a bad thing also.

    That the pastor's daughter has occultic friends is not an issue if she's evangelizing them, but is a huge issue if she lives the AC/DC lifestyle....she'll be pulled into the occult herself. Add all this up, and someone should be removed...either the pastor, the pulpit committee, or you, to another church. Or all three.
     
  4. USN2Pulpit

    USN2Pulpit
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2003
    Messages:
    1,641
    Likes Received:
    0
    Not sure how true this statement is. First of all, AC/DC no longer exists except in our memories. Second, wearing a t-shirt isn't the same thing as being in the AC/DC lifestyle (whatever that is). Third, back in the late 70's and early 80's, when they were actually a group, I'm ashamed to say I enjoyed their music, too - but I don't know any of my friends from back then that got "pulled into the occult." I certainly didn't get anywhere near the occult. I think the controversy over AC/DC was whether or not they were gay, or that their name somehow meant that they were devil-worshippers.

    Please understand that I'm not endorsing my own behavior and choices from way back then, but we also need to be a little more realistic about the problem, too - we don't need to make it worse than it is. So far, all we know is that the girl wore a t-shirt.
     
  5. RayMarshall19

    RayMarshall19
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    0
    In my opinion, when you throw in legalistic items like these you severely damage your credibility with respect to your testimony about the apparently-legitimate other issues.
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

    standingfirminChrist
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2005
    Messages:
    9,454
    Likes Received:
    0
    R.D.,

    I would seriously consider having the pulpit committee, or what deacons you have get that minister out of the pulpit as soon as possible.

    If you have deacons, they should be qualified to minister until you bring in the minister that God would have there.

    1 Timothy 3:5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)

    If he is unable to control his daughter and allows her to go to church meetings on saturday nights dressed in clothes that promote heavy metal, that should show you he is not qualified to rule the house of God.

    Get him out of there, or the church will fall completly.
     
  7. bgoc bryan

    bgoc bryan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    31
    Likes Received:
    0
    If God wants you to stay and see this fixed you may realy look at your kidds going to a different church for a time with friends of family
     
  8. R.D.

    R.D.
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    10
    Likes Received:
    0
    RayMarshall19,

    I'm new to the term "legalistic items". Please educate me on the phrase.
    This was meant to show the judgment/control of the leader of our church over his own actions and family.


    standingfirminChrist

    the chairman of the deacons, representing all the deacons, wrote and signed a statement supporting the new Pastor, and asking all memebers to support him.
     
  9. Shiloh

    Shiloh
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    May 2, 2002
    Messages:
    937
    Likes Received:
    0
    quote by humblesmith, "That the pulpit committe would hire someone"
    -------------------------------------------------
    Is the Pastor "hired?" "If" that's the case then the church can "fire" him! hmm....I thought a pastor was "called". If God called him, you better let him alone. If man called him, you better find another church..quick!
    -------------------------------------------------
    quote by bgocbryan,"If God wants you to stay and see this fixed you may realy look at your kidds going to a different church for a time with friends of family"
    -------------------------------------------------
    Do that and now you WILL have a problem!
     
  10. gb93433

    gb93433
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2003
    Messages:
    15,496
    Likes Received:
    6
    You have several things going on. I think you have a lousy preacher. He is not a pastor but worldly and does not know his Bible. Sometimes that can be good because it will make way for a good pastor to come later. Where was the pastor search commmitte in all of this? I think it says something about them and the condition of the church. A church like that does not need a pastor but to disband if they continue to get pastors like him. Too often churches come to the point where they think the solution is to just get a pastor. Well they get just exactly what they wanted--a man who calls himself a pastor.

    The people there can grow that church by working hard and doing God's work instead of waiting for a pastor.

    I have been in other denominations and other Baptist denominations/conventions as well. I found the SBC to keep their pastors a very short time. The average stay for a pastor in another Baptist denomination I checked into was 9 years. My experience has been that there is a lot of hype and infighting in the SBC and no pastor realistically can endure such nonsense on a regular basis. Churches are led to believe if only they have a certain program it will magically give them more numbers. God will not be mocked by our wisdom and charades. Regularly I heard a lot of nonsense from those involved at the state level. Some of them had never gone to seminary. The volunteers at the state level I knew were not all that well prepare. In one church I was at not one of them were doing what they suggested to me. One state volunteer who was on the state church growth board would give me all kinds of ridiculous ideas. So I put him in charge of church growth at the church. He was helpless. The man had lots of words but was unable to do what he proposed. His voice became nothing more than empty words. It destroyed his credibility.

    Only 1/2 of those who graduate from seminary will still be pastoring after five years in the SBC. Ten years later it is almost zero.
     
  11. EdSutton

    EdSutton
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2006
    Messages:
    8,755
    Likes Received:
    0
    I dunno' but it sounds to like like the church made a wise decision to keep the "cleaning lady". It sounds like there is a lot to be done in teh area of cleani...!
    Seriously, I have six verses of Scripture for you that might help. They are found in II Cor. 6:14-7:1. Actually I'll copy them:
    "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers, for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? And what communion hath light with darkness?
    15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? Or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
    16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? For ye are the temple of the living God. As God hath said: "I will dwell in them and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people."
    17Therefore, "Come out from among them, and be ye separate," saith the Lord. "And touch not the unclean thing, and I will receive you,
    18and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be My sons and daughters," saith the Lord Almighty.
    2 Corinthians 7
    1Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

    Any questions?

    Ed
     
  12. RayMarshall19

    RayMarshall19
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    153
    Likes Received:
    0
    Here's a quote from a different thread about the Pharisees:
    A legalist is one who adds his own restrictions or "laws" to those actually found in scripture, much like the Pharisees did in Jesus's time. It's okay to apply these restrictions to yourself as a matter of personal conviction, but when you apply them to others you violate Romans 14: 1-4. You don't list anything that would lead me to conclude that your current pastor has done anything outright sinful.

    Perhaps Sandi Patty or Amy Grant music would be a better choice? I once had a pastor who played "oldies" on his office radio but wouldn't stop at a casino for a $2.95 "all-you-can-eat" seafood buffet. He said he was afraid someone might think he was gambling. But he had a gut so big he couldn't button his coat!!!

    When I consider the turnover rate for pastors at your church it is hard for me to believe your current pastor is to blame for your problems.
     
  13. Brother Ian

    Brother Ian
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2005
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sounds like the priorities are totally out of whack.

    The church needs to go back to the fundmamentals.
     
  14. Soulman

    Soulman
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2004
    Messages:
    1,088
    Likes Received:
    0
    Sounds like if a 105 yr old church is going through pastors on average of every 2.5 yrs, your problem isn't the pastor. It is the congregation. I don't see how your selection process is working. A candidate for pastor should agree right down the line with your statement of faith. If you are just finding out that this guys stands are totally different than yours, shame on you! You should have screened him a little better.
     
  15. Ben W

    Ben W
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2002
    Messages:
    8,868
    Likes Received:
    0
    Then you clearly have a problem!

    If those people are behind him and what he is doing, he is unlikely to leave anytime soon.

    My best advice to you is to step back and fellowship somewhere else for a while. What are the previous pastors doing? Are any of them pastoring churches nearby?
     
  16. DeadMan

    DeadMan
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2005
    Messages:
    298
    Likes Received:
    0
    WOW! I'm feelin' for ya, brother! I'm sorry to hear that a church is in such poor condition, but it sounds like they've brought it on themselves. Since my committment to raising my kids in a Christian home is so strong, I would recommend two things:
    </font>
    1. Attempt to get your church 'back to basics' (fundamentals) or, if that doesn't work...</font>
    2. Find a new church home. This one should be disbanned.</font>
    I'm praying for ya!
     

Share This Page

Loading...