I'm wondering about something

Interesting that you quote Matthew Henry, a Calvinist, to prove Calvinism wrong.

And as long as you're quoting Southern Baptist Seminary Professors - here's one you should read.

"The Scriptures teach not only that God had a general plan that is being carried out in human history, but also that God's purpose applies to the individual. When a man is saved, he is not saved as a matter of chance or accident or fate; he is saved in pursuance of an eternal purpose of God. God saves men because he intends to. He saves a particular man, at a particular time, under a given set of circumstances, because he intends to.

Election does not mean that God instituted a general plan of salvation and decreed that whosoever would should be saved and, therefore, the man who wills to be saved is elected in that he brings himself within the scope of God's plan. It is true that God has decreed that whosoever will shall be saved; but election is something more specific and personal than that. It means that God has decreed to bring some, upon whom his heart has been eternally set, who are the objects of his eternal love, to faith in Jesus as Saviour."

From the Book - The Gospel of Redemption page 61 - by Walter T. Conner, Ph.D., D.D., Professor of Systematic Theology in the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary for thirty nine years. Published by Broadman Press.

 

Wes,

Please explain how a person becomes a Christian.

Top to Bottom - 1 to 10. Chronologically if you please or if you can.

Maybe you could just tell us about your salvation experience and the steps and process involved.

 

Hardsheller,
What you've posted does not prove that the doctrine of election is valid. It is merely a man's opinion!

 

Wes,

All we ever see on this board is man's opinion!

You sure don't mind sharing yours!

 

Glad you recognize that truth!

 

Romans 9:11
"Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that god's purpose in election might stand" he loved and chose Jacob, but Esau he hated and left him to die in his sins.

Was His decision on the twins an isolated case or is everyone subject to God's will?

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"

"It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort"

God had compassion for Jacob, but not Esau.

God has compassion for me, but not my twin brother.

"Desire or effort" requires a human decision for an act to be carried out, making it impossible for anybody to save himself on their own merit.

Who is or who is not saved does not depend on human decision.

"I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."

Did you seek God for your salvation?
Did you ask for God to save you?

According to the above it is impossible to gain God's favor by searching or asking for him.

Simple, simple, simple to understand.

 

Hello dianetavegia.

It's a false argument dianetavegia because God either done that or He turned His back on the child being molested and to the 14 year old it makes Him Sovereign. Job 1:21 ...The LORD gave and the LORD has taken away; may the name of the LORD be praised."

john.

 

This makes God the creator and propagator of sin which is not true, much like God permitting Satan to test Job, the rape was also allowed. God is the regulator and restrainer of sin as in Job's ordeal or God's restraining of lawlessness until the rebellion ("apostasy") "occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed."

 

Hello prophecynut.

I think you should point at me rather than Diane as she was saying that if God is Sovereign it would be Him causing the rape and murder. This is what I say not Diane.

john.

 

Romans 9:11
"Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad - in order that god's purpose in election might stand" he loved and chose Jacob, but Esau he hated and left him to die in his sins.

Was His decision on the twins an isolated case or is everyone subject to God's will?

"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion"

"It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort"

God had compassion for Jacob, but not Esau.

God has compassion for me, but not my twin brother.

"Desire or effort" requires a human decision for an act to be carried out, making it impossible for anybody to save himself on their own merit.

Who is or who is not saved does not depend on human decision.

"I was found by those who did not seek me; I revealed myself to those who did not ask for me."

Did you seek God for your salvation?
Did you ask for God to save you?

According to the above it is impossible to gain God's favor by searching or asking for him.

Simple, simple, simple to understand. </font>[/QUOTE]You cite one single example, and the only one in scripture, and you do so repeatedly as if oft repeating it will make it apply to all of humanity, then you base a whole doctrine on it. Amazing, no wonder there is such confusion among believers.

Then your bible (or your belief system) lies to you! Jesus said in Luke 11:9-13

If you believe the bible is the word of God, then you must believe that what I just quoted to you is also the word of God, because it is attributed to Jesus, the SON of God.

 

Wrong scripture Wes he's going to eat you.

john.

 

Well, it's a cinch you cannot, but you did not identify who you think can.

 

Hello Wes.

You don't believe it is the word of God how can you have the nerve to say such a thing as 'then you must believe that what I just quoted to you is also the word of God'? What is it? The red bits?

It's me teeth man.

The bogeyman.

john.

 

Johnp,
It is only your opinion that I do not believe the bible is the word of God. I have never said that it is not!

 

Hello Wes.

You say Hell is to be annihilated with all it's occupants against the scripture, "And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."

john.

 

Man's interpretations of the contents of the bible do not determine whether or not the bible is the word of God!