Imminent Return of Christ

There were many events prophesied by Christ, known throughout the Christian world in the Bible times, that still had to occur before He could return, such as the destruction of the Temple (Lk. 21:6), the death of Peter (Jn. 21:18-19), that Paul must witness in Rome (Acts 23:11) and that John will have additional public ministry beyond writing the book of the Revelation (Rev. 10:8-11). Imminency was an impossibility until these events prophesied by Christ were fulfilled.

 

Grasshopper: "quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be real careful saying that
anytime God wanted to, he could fulfill
any part of prophecy He might want to.
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Ok.......but I said no such thing. Is it your position then that He could not at anytime fulfill prophecy?


I believe that anytime from the day
after the Day of Pentacost, 33AD until
the pretribulation rapture that Jesus
could have or will come to get us.
After that, the postribulation rapture/resurrection
will be 2520 days later.

I also believe that we cannot go back a
correct mistakes after 15 min.
This is incorrect.
Make my statemetn corret to correspond
with my belief.

I would be real careful saying that
anytime God wanted to, he could NOT fulfill
any part of prophecy He might want to.

Thank you.

 

The Thessalonians were familiar with
this saying of Jesus which we now find
recorded in Matthew 24:13 (KJV1873):

But he that shall endure unto
the end, the same shall be saved.

But some said of their friend "He got
sick and died before Jesus came to
get him, poor soul."

Paul addresses this problem in
a clearly pretribulation rapture passage
1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11,
one of the most comforting passages in the
Bible.

1 Thessalonians 4:13 - 5:11 (nKJV):

13 But I do not want you to be ignorant,
brethren, concerning those who have fallen
asleep, lest you sorrow as others who
have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and
rose again, even so God will bring with Him
those who sleep in Jesus.
15 For this we say to you by the word of the Lord,
that we who are alive and remain until
the coming of the Lord will by no means
precede those who are asleep.
16 For the Lord Himself will descend
from heaven with a shout, with the voice
of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.
And the dead in Christ will rise first.
17 Then we who are alive and remain
shall be caught up (raptured)
together with them in the clouds to meet
the Lord in the air. And thus we shall
always be with the Lord.
18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
5:1 But concerning the times and the seasons,
brethren, you have no need that I should
write to you.
2 For you yourselves know perfectly that
the day of the Lord so comes as a thief
in the night.
3 For when they say, "Peace and safety!"
then sudden destruction comes upon them,
as labor pains upon a pregnant woman.
And they shall not escape.
4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness,
so that this Day should overtake
you as a thief.
5 You are all sons of light and sons of the day.
We are not of the night nor of darkness.
6 Therefore let us not sleep, as others do,
but let us watch and be sober.
7 For those who sleep, sleep at night,
and those who get drunk are drunk at night.
8 But let us who are of the day be sober,
putting on the breastplate of faith and love,
and as a helmet the hope of salvation.
9 For God did not appoint us to wrath,
but to obtain salvation through our
Lord Jesus Christ,
10 who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep,
we should live together with Him.
11 Therefore comfort each other and edify
one another, just as you also are doing.

Later the Thessalonians wondered if they
had missed the rapture. Paul corrects this
in a second letter:

2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (nKJV):

1 Now, brethren, concerning
the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
and our gathering together to Him,
we ask you,
2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled,
either by spirit or by word or by letter,
as if from us, as though the day of Christ
had come.
3 Let no one deceive you by any means;
for that Day will not come unless
the falling away comes first,
and the man of sin
is revealed, the son of perdition,

The falling away that comes first
is the Rapture!
Then the man of sin is revealed, the
antichrist. Then the Tribulation period
begins.

There is nothing HAS TO HAPPEN before
the rapture.
Here are some things that could happen
before the rapture but they do NOT
have to happen.

1) The destruction of Damascus (Isaiah 17)
2) the Ezekiel 38 Gog/Magog invastion
(the Ezekiel 39 and Revelation 20:8
Gog/Magog invasion will be after the
Tribulation period)
3) the building of a Temple in Jerusalem
on Mount Zion north of and alongside
the Dome of the Rock.

But again, these things do not HAVE
TO HAPPEN before the rapture, they may
happen after the rapture.

Hense, the coming of the Lord to get His
own is and has been IMMINENT.
It could happen any moment.
It might not happen for a couple more
thousand years.
The coming for the saints (pretribualtion
rapture/resurreciton) is and has been
IMMINENT and shall remain so. Amen!

 

Ed, You didn't address any of these events prophesied by Christ.

 

I would say that is a matter of interpretation, I believe the "falling away" is the church falling away is the church turning to false doctrine.

New Testament Greek
Original Word: ajpostasiva
Transliterated Word: apostasia
Definition: a falling away, defection, apostasy

Also used in Acts 21:21 - And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

Rapture won't work in that verse either.

 

Ed, You didn't address any of these events prophesied by Christ. </font>[/QUOTE]Sorry, Sir, you question
appears to indicate you have no idea
what "imminency" means, what we have been
saying about imminency, and probably some
other stuff about which i have no idea.

If at any time it seems there are some
stuff that needs to be done prior
to the pretribulation rapture, God can
see that they get done before that
pretribualation rapture without notifying
you.

Thus even if somebody "proves" there is
something to be done prior to the
pretibulation rapture/resurrection,
this does not destroy the Doctrine
of the Imminent Return of Christ.

Even if your objections are valid,
it changes the date from 33AD to 100AD
and the period from 33AD to 2004+
TO 100AD to 2004+. This changes
the period by 3%. Because the end point
of 2004 was used in this computation
and the return of Jesus to collect we saints
may be in the future, this 3% reduces
about 1/10 of 1% per year. I.E. the error
reduces as the Lord tarries.

Here is another proof of the Doctrine
of the Imminent Return Of Christ.
Consider the Doctrine of the Sovereignty
of God. God can do What He wants, any time
He wants, any where He wants, any Who He wants,
Any how He wants, to achieve any
Will He wants or any purpose He determines.
An obvious subset of this divine principle
is that God can send Jesus back to
get His people of the Church Age
ANY TIME HE WANTS without notifying
you or me.

Sorry, i really don't think God is going to
check with any of us to see if it is
alright with us if He should return.

And because God is all powerful, He
can do all we expect Him to do earlier
in the 24-hour day He returns.

 

So Christ said that Peter was going to grow old, and so if Peter believed in "imminency", then he believed that he could wake up the next day "old", because God made it happen. That is about like the lady that is trying to have children and still taking birth control, because if God wants her to get pregnate it will happen.

I asked a honest question from the Scriptures and you respond with " you have no idea what your talking about" and a buch of other stuff that doesn't even come close to address the the question I asked. Thanks for the "non-answer"!

 

I can't type tonight???

This:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Grasshopper: "quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be real careful saying that
anytime God wanted to, he could fulfill
any part of prophecy He might want to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ok.......but I said no such thing. Is it your position then that He could not at anytime fulfill prophecy?
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

should read like this:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Ed: -----------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would be real careful saying that
anytime God wanted to, he could fulfill
any part of prophecy He might want to.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Grasshopper: "Ok.......but I said no such thing. Is it your position then that He could not at anytime fulfill prophecy?"
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Maybe I should'a stayed in bed?

 

Get used to it. Ed is a master at that.

 

Imminence refers to nearness people. God is imminent and by himself. He is both near to us and apart from us.

When referring to the rapture, it simply means that it is near.

Obviously the church would exist for a time. The thing is though, that no one knew exactly how long. No one knew that it would be here as long as it has been. No one knows when it will end from a timeline perspective.

 

14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.

Matt. 24:14

 

I agree with that, and "near" in God's time could be a long time in our time. My questions was, doesn't the Bible say that certain things would take place before the end, and if so, does that not mean that there was a time when the rapture couldn't have just taken place in the next minute, because these things hadn't taken place?

 

Matt.24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world ( oiÎkoumeÑnh )for a testimony unto all the nations ( eáqnov ); and then shall the end come.

Romans 16:26 but now is manifested, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, is made known unto all the nations ( eáqnov) unto obedience of faith:

Romans 10:18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth ( gh=), And their words unto the ends of the world ( oiÎkoumeÑnh ).

 

Netpub, that is correct. That doesn't really have any bearing though on the pretrib understanding of imminence. They knew that certain things had to happen, but they didn't know how fast they would happen. Savvy?

In other words, Peter would be old. Do you think they knew exactly what that meant? How old was Peter when he was with the Lord? Was he 30, 40, 50, etc.? It never says.

Also, the gospel had to go throughout the whole world. The end would come sometime after the gospel had gone throughout the whole world. Well, the gospel has gone out, but if the "then" means immediately, the Lord is still not done sending the gospel out.

 

Imminency is a false doctrine of pre-tribbers. None of the verses pre-tribs use to "prove" an any moment rapture deal with the chronological timeline of end-times events. Rather, they all speak to the ATTITUDE of the believer. We are to be looking for it, and expectant of it. This is NOT the same thing as being imminent. Just because we don't know when something will occur doesn't mean it can happen at any time.

Jesus gave the perfect picture in Mt 24: the labor pains of a woman. Any of us who have had kids understand the example. We eagerly expect the birth even though we know that it won't be near until the labor pains begin. It is only when the labor begins that we can truly expect and "imminent" birth. We don't know when the birth will be, this doesn't mean it can happen at any time. It won't happen until certains signs appear.

It is the same with the Rapture. We are to have an attitude of expectancy and eagerly watch for the signs. However, we will know it won't happen until certain signs appear, namely the revealing of the AC and the apostacy (II Thess and Mt 24). Then and only then will the Rapture truly be imminent.

 

This is the Doctrine of the Immenent Return of Christ:

Revelatiion 22:20 (HCSB):

He who testifies about these things says, "Yes, I am
coming quickly." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

This was penned in 0096AD, the Return of Christ
was immenent then. The Return of Christ is immenent
now. The Return of Christ is NOT immenent if you
have to wait another 3½-years or 7-years for it to happen.

 

danrusdad, your error is obvious in that you put the rapture sometime after the beginning of the tribulation.

 

So if we have to wait 3.5 years or 7 years for the rapture then you would agree its not imminent.

Since Darby in 1830 about 175 years have passed. Would you then agree that it WAS NOT IMMINENT when JN Darby was actively spreading pre trib.

 

If you answer is
serious, and i presume it is, then you
have yet to agree what the concept of
"imminent" might be.

This is the Doctrine of the Imminent Return of Christ:

Revelation 22:20 (HCSB):

He who testifies about these things
says, "Yes, I am
coming quickly." Amen! Come, Lord Jesus!

BTW, the Doctrine of the Imminent Return
of Christ is about Jesus, not about John
Darby.

 

Lets try again Ed.

You say above that if we have to wait 7 years for the return of Christ its not imminent.

Then waiting 175 years would mean it wasn't imminent at the beginning of the 175 years.

Isn't that correct?