Impossible to fool The Elect

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Jul 18, 2013.

  1. Berean

    Berean
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    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall show signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mk 13: 22 KJV.
    This means that it is impossible to fool or dupe true disciples or believers.
    These are the words of Jesus to His Apostles concerning the last days.
    So say you?
     
  2. pinoybaptist

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    Let me add a couple more verses and bold/underline some relevant phrases.

    Revelation 13:8 KJV
    And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    Revelation 17:8 KJV
    The beast that thou sawest was , and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder , whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was , and is not, and yet is .

    notice that the Lamb slain at Calvary, IN TIME, is also the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. At the beginning of time, or before the beginning of time, however one wants to look at it.

    notice also that the book was written from the foundation of the world, at the same instance that eternity's lamb was slain.

    this book was not populated with names in accordance with the elect's beliefs, faith, repentance, coming to Christ, and whatever it is that popular gospel preaching demands nowadays.

    those names were there before the owner of those names even existed.

    like Christ said, "no man comes to me UNLESS the Father draws him", and "my sheep hear my voice, and they know me, and I know them".

    and to those who claimed Christ on the basis of their works for Him, did He not say, "I NEVER knew you" ?

    addendum:

    what is it that those whose names were not written in the Lamb's book of life from the foundation of the world will do ? according to ch. 17:8, the will WONDER.
     
    #2 pinoybaptist, Jul 18, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 18, 2013
  3. Yeshua1

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    Think the Lord knows His own, and that he will make sure they stand and make it to the very end into heaven, but also think that even saints can be 'sucked into" at times wrong theology, just look at modern charasmatic movements!

    Have to stay alert, and know the word!
     
  4. saturneptune

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    I believe you are correct maybe with one qualifier. Even the saved are not at some point in time walking as close as they could with the Holy Spirit and be exhibiting a Christ like life. If the deception came at a point in a believer's life where he had drifted from the Truth, yes, I can see him being deceived.
     
  5. MB

    MB
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    What makes you so sure you are a sheep? What makes you so sure you've been drawn?
    MB
     
  6. RIPP0NWV

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    Not been much of a poster as of yet, but an observer. Your posts strike me as nothing but confrontational, with no words of encouragement. Have you ever read the Bible?
     
  7. MB

    MB
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    Are you feeling left out.
    MB
     
  8. RIPP0NWV

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    Not really, just observing for a while. What is the purpose of a constant stream of meaningless and cruel posts that have nothing to do with Scripture?
     
  9. Jedi Knight

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    John 10:5 But they will NEVER follow a stranger; IN FACT, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice."
     
  10. pinoybaptist

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    lol.
    when did this become about me?
     
  11. Dr. Bob

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    Salvation is by God's regenerating work in His elect. I was "fooled" by religion (remember I was Jewish, then Catholic THEN born again!) but ULTIMATELY because I was elect, God's Spirit worked on me and changed this heart of stone into a living heart.

    Jesus called this work of the Spirit "born again" to Nick at Night. If a person is one of God's elect (specially loved from before the world was created) they will be regenerated. They might be "fooled" for a while, but ultimately God's Spirit wins and our nature changed.

    God ALWAYS wins. Deck is stacked in His favor. Not ONE of us elect can be lost.

    Out where we live we'd add "Yippee ki yi yay". Y'all can add "Amen" :thumbs:
     
  12. Yeshua1

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    Think that promise though is for the saint who abides in Jesus, staying in fellowship, as those aree the ones able to discern the true and the fake!

    otherwise, why do Mormons/JW/WoF get converts out from baptists more so than about any other group?
     
  13. Servent

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    You will find a lot of that here
     
  14. Jedi Knight

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    Simple....they were lost. Where dose it say if you "we're" a Baptist you were born again? They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us. 1 John 2:19
     
  15. Van

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    Lets discuss:

    Matthew 24:24 and Mark 13:22 present parallel verses saying essentially the same things.

    1) False Christ's and false prophets will arise.

    2) They will perform sign and wonder miracles.

    3) So as to mislead or lead astray, even the elect if possible.

    If a person was chosen for salvation and set apart in Christ, they are born anew and are protected (kept) by the power of God, 1 Peter 1:3-5. Thus it is impossible to lead astray, meaning so as to lose salvation those born anew.

    However we know some who are chosen and set apart build on the foundation of Christ with perishable stuff, earning no rewards, but they still enter heaven. So being elect does not mean a person cannot be sidetracked and lead into ineffective ministry.

    Final point, for those looking for sign and wonder gifts with those of the body, according to scripture the next folks exhibiting those powers will be false Christ's and false prophets. Food for thought.
     
  16. saturneptune

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    Here is some more food for thought. Why do you attempt to create a divide between the two sides on issues where none exists? You are referring to those whose works were burnt up, but were saved as by fire. In modern terms, by the skin of their teeth.

    Being elect means being in heaven regardless of how many rewards or lack of rewards. Of course one can be sidetracked. Regardless of what you think of Romans 6-8, Christians still have the old nature, and the old nature fights with the new creation. No fight, no salvation.

    You act like detecting a false Christ takes an act of Congress. If one studies Scripture, and has a close walk with the Lord, they can be spotted a mile away. If it were not against the rules, I would mention there are some on this board, but I would never break a rule.
     
  17. DrJamesAch

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    [We are working on NOT bringing your continual yammer of Calvinism and deal with one small part of doctrinal truth. Your comments are off topic - if you want to drag your hobby horse, go to the Calvinist debate forum]
     
    #17 DrJamesAch, Jul 19, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 19, 2013
  18. saturneptune

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    I thought we were in the Calvinist debate forum.

    The term Van was centered on is "the elect." Either way, the term is saved. As Van correctly pointed out, some get to heaven as by fire. Yes, I believe they can be fooled by false christs. As was stated in another post, the saved, elect, whatever, that are into the Word, and have a close walk with the Lord, have a relatively easy time of detecting a phony.
     
  19. Dr. Bob

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    We're in the General (not even "theology") forum!

    The op quoted the verse using "elect". In this case and discussion you are correct that we are NOT talking "Calvinism" (thank God) for talking about those who are God's children, ie regenerate.

    Glad to keep it "on topic" and I will simply zap posts that are an attempt to hobby-horse-hatred
    :type:
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    This is Where....

    ...the ability, or as some call it, the Spirit of Discernment, is useful! However, in answer to your question, I believe some believers can, and will be fooled, mainly because a lot of believers listen and believe with their heart and not their ears and eyes, which should be based solely/soul-ly on the Scriptures.

    We know there are believers who are weak in Bible study and knowledge, and this makes for easy pickings when it comes to being fooled, led astray, or side-tracked! :wavey:

    Oh, I don't care if a person believes they are the "Elect" or, like me, saved by the shirt on their back [or by His generous grace, because I was on His mind when HE created the earth]. History has demonstrated quite clearly that wherever there are believers, there are those who are fooled!
     
    #20 righteousdude2, Jul 20, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 20, 2013

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