In a Fox Hole With A Gay ?

==When it comes to this issue I don't ask and I trust people don't tell. In short, I don't want to know those personal details of a person's life. People need to keep their "sex life", perverted or normal, to themselves. I don't want to hear about it.

 

Well, of course, there sins went beyond homosexuality but that doesn't lesson the significance of that sin does it? Ezekiel even confirms it by the phrase "... and did detestable things before me." and I think we know what those "detestable things" were. Scripture complements scripture. It is clear from the sum of it what God thinks of homosexuality.

Neither the battles against abortion nor against pornography is lost. I'll be happy to address those issues as well in threads devoted to those topics. But they are not the topic of this thread and diverting to them only delutes the argument against this particular sin.

In the end the Lord wins. Along the way we have a duty to stand against all sins and try our best through the power of the Lord to live as an example unto others.

We also have a duty to work towards establishing - we did that - and mantaining - we need to get back on track on that - a civil government that does its duty to restrain sin, punishes the wicked, and rewards the righteous just as God ordained the purpose of this institution. That's why this is being discussed on the politics board.

As I've said before on this board: I'm a murderer, adulterer, thief, and liar - in both thought and deed - so nothing I say about anyone else's sinfulness - such as homosexuals and homosexuality - excuses anything I've done or might yet do. Perhaps some of you are less sinful that me which is fine. Perhaps some homosexuals are less sinful in other ways that all of us which is fine. But, in no case, does anything negative the sinfulness of homosexua

lity nor the need for us to stand against it and stop coming up with rationalizations, excuses, and carrying on a passive attitude about it as if there's nothing we can do about it, that it's not our "business" - understand the purpose of civil government, and not being wise enough to see that those pushing for certain gains today have much greater goals in mind.

 

I really don't want to hear about it either, Martin, but if we don't get serious about putting the brakes on the homosexual movement we will be hearing a lot about it as well our grandchildren and great-grandchildren. They will receive indoctrination on the acceptability of homosexuality and any opposition against that will likely be deemed some kind of "hate crime". They will be confused when they hear from the government school teacher something so drastically different than their grandparents told them and may well find themselves suspended from school pending "re-education" on the subject. So we'd better get our heads out of the sand and stop acting like it's not our "business" when it has already greatly effected our society and will continue to do so. Just ask some other "gray heads" like me how much things have changed on this one issue and consider that change is viewed by many, if not most, as a big step forward in "diversity". Wake up, brothers in Christ, and speak out while you still have a voice!

 

==Christians should be sending their children to private Christian schools or good public schools. The Bible calls us to live seperate lives. If it gets to the point that Christian children can no longer attend most public schools then we should make sure Christian children do not attend most public schools.

==We can't change or save society in a fallen world. The Bible is clear about that and about the direction society will take. As Christians our job is to witness to the lost world and disciple the saved. Trying to get a bunch of lost people who are dead in sin to act like saved people is a waste of time, money, and effort. Indeed, it is trying to win a spiritual war with fleshly weapons. It will not work.

==Changed in America. The homosexual agenda is not new. It was very much alive and well in the ancient world where, one could argue, it was more accepted than it is in America today. Sin never changes. The only thing that changes is the names and faces of the people committing those sins.

My point? You can try to save society through laws, and social/political movements like the Moral Majority (etc) all you want. It will not work (over the long term). I'm not saying we should throw our hands in the air and walk away. No. We should vote, we should make our convictions known, and Christians who have children should do what they must to protect them. Our job is to be light by living out the life of Christ and preaching the Good News of the Gospel of Christ. That is what the Apostles did in the wicked world they lived in. That is what we should do. If we spent as much time preaching the Gospel and teaching the saved as we do fussing about laws (etc) our time would be spent in a much more valuable and productive way.

 

I certainly agree that private Christian schools are the better option! We'd just better hope that will still be an option because a lot of people don't think it should be!

No, the Bible does not call for us to live "sepearate" lives! It calls for us to be the salt and the light of the world. We live in this world. What it calls for us to do is to live differently than the rest of the world knowing that, ultimately, this is not our permanent home.

Every generation "changes" the society they live in by what they do or don't do. It is "fatalistic" to pretend that it doesn't matter what we do. God is, indeed, sovereign but we are, at the same time, "free" to exercise our will by His permissive will.

God's design includes the design of civil government for the express purpose of restraining sin, punishing the wicked, and rewarding the righteous in this world. It is correct that "salvation" cannot be legislated but it is not true that fundamental morality cannot be legislated. It is our duty to seek to apply God's laws to what we define as "morality" to the extent that it can do so without treading in the realm of evil purposes through the corruptability of men and his power of other men. This has been well understood for generations. It is never perfect, never complete, and never without fault but it can range from good to bad and it is better, for the sake of the saints, that it tend towards good.

There is indeed nothing new about the sin of homosexuality! But the homosexual agenda has made tremendous gains in the last generation in America and that is a change over where it was for many generations before.

The moral majority may not have been a success because it was not always so moral and it is probably not the majority! I don't think that means we stop trying to keep our laws based on the fundamental Biblical principles upon which they were established. I don't think that means we should step aside and let the immoral majority pervert the law to fit their wants and needs.

In America we own the government - a blessing few, if any, other nations have ever enjoyed to the extent we have. Voting is only one our duties. We have a responsibility to preserve the fundamental establishment of our government as laid out in our Constitution - the contract between the people, the States, and the federal government. We are not subjects of an earthly King and no one in Washington owns us as their slaves.

Yes, we are to be the "light" but, Martin, we are also to be the "salt" and we should not neglect one for the other.

I absolutely agree we should spend time preaching the Gospel and the entire Bible but I do not agree that absolves us of other duties as citizens and owners of our government.

 

Don't ask, don't tell

There is an Air Force base in my community where a decorated serviceman was kicked out of the military (in the 1960s) for being homosexual. He told a reporter, "When I was in the Air Force, they gave me a medal for killing two men...and a discharge for loving one." ---Sgt. Leonard Matlovitch.

Thank God, our nation is finally headed toward enlightenment.

 

The acts of homosexuality cannot be properly called "loving" because they have nothing to do with love.

No man's righteous acts - if there is such a thing - overcome his sinful acts. His sin is still his sin.

Therefore, let's not use either this man's "loving" or his medals - as deserved as they may be - to add any merit to his homosexuality.

 

==How do you define "enlightenment"?