In Christ, Eph 1:4: A question for Reformed Baptists

examiningcalvinism · Jan 26, 2007

I've said my peace

I'm going to the gym.

Jarthur001 · Jan 26, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

It is true that unbelievers are condemned and serve the devil and his interests, and hence the necessity of Prevenient Grace, that is, God's grace when He seeks, draws, knocks, convicts, pricks, pierces, and opens hearts to believe. You don't get the new heart, the new birth, regeneration, the Indwelling, ect, until you are sealed in Christ. Those things are restricted and reserved to none but those who are in Christ, and you are stealing.
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Sorry...I'm alone tonight, and I had to run and get a Big Mac.

so we have this...

1) they believe after they hear.

2) All unbelievers are of their Father the devil.

Now...

If the Bible says you are ...and get this phrase..."of God"...what do you think that means?

Jarthur001 · Jan 26, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

John Hagee states: “Jesus called a Gentile woman, a dog. He never called the Gentiles His brethren. Let me remind you of something. We did not get plugged in until the cross. We had no basis of standing with God until the cross. There’s where we were in Galatians 3 when Paul said you were outside the covenance of Israel, without hope and without God. That’s very important. Then at the cross, we were plugged in, and we received the riches of Abraham, and we received healing, and we received adoption, and we received all the cornucopia of the blessings of God. But before the cross, we were castoffs. You need to understand that.” (emphasis mine)
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Well...there you go. if John Hagee said it...it must be true.

Benjamin · Jan 26, 2007

The popcorn was chewy :smilewinkgrin: ;
The wife's bringing home Mexican food here. Home gym will be in use tomorrow.

Jarthur001 · Jan 29, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

I'm going to the gym.
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That's some workout.

J.D. · Jan 29, 2007

Richard, I gave in and went to your web site to see what you had to say there about 1 Cor 1:30-31.

Here's a paraphrase of what you said: "Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!!"

johnp. · Jan 29, 2007

Gen 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers...

Two distinct groups came from Eve. Those of the Devil and those of God.
John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep. 27 My sheep listen to my voice...

We are not converted goats are we? Those who were chosen for blessing have been eternally loved by the Father and creation was created so that He could be with those He had chosen.

Is Prevenient Grace the same as common grace?

Isn't it inevitable that it sets up an eternal election in the Father?, and yet the Son says that no one comes to the Father but by Him? (John 14:6)
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JN 17:6 "I have revealed you to those whom you gave me out of the world. They were yours; you gave them to me and they have obeyed your word.

..."Here am I, and the children God has given me." Heb 2:13.

john.

examiningcalvinism · Feb 1, 2007

John P

Prevenient Grace is about Jesus seeking, drawing, knocking, while the Holy Spirit convicts, pricks, pierces and opens hearts to respond to the Gospel. Preventient Grace is about opening hearts, while Calvinistic Irresistible Grace is about changing hearts, in preemptively placement in Christ.

Here is a link on Prevenient Grace by Adrian Rogers:

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/01/adrian-rogers-on-prevenient-grace.html

Enjoy!

examiningcalvinism · Feb 1, 2007

JArthur

That argument has hit a dead end, unless you wish to revive the discussion.

Here is my Blog on Ephesians 1:13:

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/02/preemptive-regeneration-preemptive.html

Best wishes.

Jarthur001 · Feb 2, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

That argument has hit a dead end, unless you wish to revive the discussion.

Here is my Blog on Ephesians 1:13:

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/02/preemptive-regeneration-preemptive.html

Best wishes.
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This is what I have found since debating free-willers. If you take it slow and one step at a time, their game falls apart. Free-willers like to walk quick and carry a clipboard. It looks like they may have something, till you stop them and look at that clipboard and see it is blank. I have read some of your blog. I knew from the 1st post that something was fishy. The way you only post part of my quotes, shows you do this to Calvin and all. You claim on your blog no one answered you. That is a lie. Many answered you, you just did not like what you heard. One can see it is you that has dodge. The link below has been posted 3-4 times and you will not reply.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=938589&postcount=64

Another blank clipboard.

I said before and I'll say it now. You are only fooling yourself, to try to show Calvin and others support your view. Your not examining Calvinism, your trying to make your people to agree with you. Now some will just take your word for it and be done with it. Have you forgotten that most will NOT take your word? Do you not know that your one line quotes from a full book will be checked on by others? Will not this bring down your house of cards?

Your doctrine rest on one word. The mighty word "in". The Greek has been shown that your hope and trust you place in this word will not stand. Another blank clipboard you have.

examiningcalvinism · Feb 2, 2007

JArthur

This is my last post to you.

Your non-answers are a case study in evasiveness. The following Blog documents it:

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/01/questions-about-calvinistic-election.html

Nevertheless, my purpose here is not to embarrass you, but to obtain follow up dialogue on the pickle that Calvinism finds itself in, concerning Eph 1:14 and Eph 1:13.

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/02/preemptive-regeneration-preemptive.html

I have posted this elsewhere, and I will see whether others are willing to accept the challenge.

Jarthur001 · Feb 2, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

This is my last post to you.

Your non-answers are a case study in evasiveness. The following Blog documents it:

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/01/questions-about-calvinistic-election.html

Nevertheless, my purpose here is not to embarrass you, but to obtain follow up dialogue on the pickle that Calvinism finds itself in, concerning Eph 1:14 and Eph 1:13.

http://examiningcalvinism.blogspot.com/2007/02/preemptive-regeneration-preemptive.html

I have posted this elsewhere, and I will see whether others are willing to accept the challenge.
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Hello EC,

This is only the 1st statement of what you posted on your site. One can click on your link to see..

Ephesians 1:3-4: "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ, just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we would be holy and blameless before Him."

Arminian Question #1: Do you believe that Eph 1:4 is saying that [the chosen] were chosen [to become] in Christ? If so, in whom were they chosen, whereupon God has chosen them [to be] in Christ?
Calvinist Answer: "Yes."
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=36818&page=4
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Yes was my answer this only "yes" this time. You forgot to post on your site you asked other times and I gave verses and details. Why? Not trying to mislead are you?

Like this time..
http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=938419&postcount=30

and this...please note the verse you never addressed and forgot to post on your site.

http://www.baptistboard.com/showpost.php?p=938589&postcount=64

Another blank clipboard.

I tell you what EC....to show you are a fair person...post Isa 43 on your site and show where you never addressed it.

Here I'll help you.....

1But now thus saith Jehovah that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel: Fear not, for I have redeemed thee; I have called thee by thy name, thou art mine. 2When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned, neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

Great passage that I'm sure you have read many times. But most stop reading here and miss the blessing below.

3For I am Jehovah thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour; I have given Egypt as thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba in thy stead.

Did you read that? God is giving up other people as a ransom for His people. Wow!!
You understand what this means? He will do anything for the ones He loves. But wait..there's more..

4Since thou hast been precious in my sight, and honorable, and I have loved thee; therefore will I give men in thy stead, and peoples instead of thy life.

Will give other men in thy stead!! WOW!! You understand this means death..right?

Now..Please notice that the "fear not" below is to His people...

5Fear not; for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west; 6I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the end of the earth; 7every one that is called by my name, and whom I have created for my glory, whom I have formed, yea, whom I have made. 8Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. 9Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the peoples be assembled: who among them can declare this, and show us former things? let them bring their witnesses, that they may be justified; or let them hear, and say, It is truth.

1st God gathers His people from all over the earth. Then God gathers all peoples before them. Why? Well...God wanted the other people to witness something. God wanted them to see it with thir own eyes...to hear it with thier own ears. What? Well..it tells us in the next verse.

10Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

Chosen not because God looked and learned. We...His people are chosen that they MAY KNOW. They are chosen to BELIEVE. They are chosen that they may UNDERSTAND their need for salvation.

11I, even I, am Jehovah; and besides me there is no saviour. 12I have declared, and I have saved, and I have showed; and there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and I am God.
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Now all you need to do is link to this page...

and for the "Arminian reply"...just put a blank clipboard.

All the other links are the same as this one. Just as you did from post one on...with Calvin, james white, john mac, and now J Arthur. But...I'm no buddy.

Have fun...

In Christ...James

webdog · Feb 2, 2007

This is what I have found since debating free-willers. If you take it slow and one step at a time, their game falls apart. Free-willers like to walk quick and carry a clipboard. It looks like they may have something, till you stop them and look at that clipboard and see it is blank.
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This sounds awfully like the calvinist's views. You believe in regeneration prior to faith, another believes in regeneration after faith, one believes in 4 points, another 5, yet another 3.

DHK · Feb 2, 2007

examiningcalvinism said:

This is my last post to you.
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Since this seems to be the last post, possibly one of many, we will make "this post" the last post of this thread and close it; seeing that this thread has already reached 30 pages.
You may start another one if you think it will be beneficial to you.

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