"In context"

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Berean, Oct 6, 2009.

  1. Berean

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    Often I hear the phrase "taken out of context" or "in context" usually to defend a particular doctrine or belief. Webster defines context as the words or a group of words before or after a particular word that help to explain its full meaning. It doesn't say how far before or how far after the subject. How would you contextualize I Tomothy 3: 2 & I Tim 3:12? Does this mean that a single man cannot serve as a pastor or deacon?
     
  2. Johnv

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    There's a great deal of argument over these passages.

    One argument is that the verses are self-evident, that they are saying that only a married male qualifies for these offices. The counter argument to that is, if that's what Paul meant, why did he not simply say "husband of A wife", or simply say "a man who has a wife"?

    Another argument is that the context of the verses is that these offices can ony be held by a male (whether married or not). The counter argument is that Paul did not say "a man" or "a male", but made a point of saying "husband of one wife".

    Another argument is that the context of the verses is that these offices can only be held by a person who is faithful to one spouse, thus disqualifying a polygamist or philanderer. The counter argument is that Paul could have said "faithful to his spouse".

    Although Baptists doctrine does not dictate that these positions be male only, most Baptist practice the installation of only males in these positions.
     
  3. Jim1999

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    Whilst my organization will not ordain women for anything in ministry, I have gnerally maintained that it was a cultural matter Paul was dealing with, and not a concrete matter.

    Why do we permit women to study in seminaries? Seminaries were designed to train future pastors. If women are not to teach men, why do some women hold teaching positions in seminaries teaching men, and future pastors at that?

    I think there is an inconsistency in the general view taught in evangelical camps. John has hit on this well in his post.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  4. webdog

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    I believe that is the correct understanding of that passage. If a man does not have a family to manage, how can they manage God's family?
     
  5. ReformedBaptist

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    I guess the Apostle Paul then was a bad manger of God's family in your view?
     
  6. Johnv

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    Hmmm, good point. Paul was a leader in the early church, and unmarried.
     
  7. webdog

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    He was not an elder, was he? How can a single man manage their family well (what family?)...a requirement of being an elder?
     
    #7 webdog, Oct 6, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 6, 2009
  8. webdog

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    He was an apostle chosen by Christ who oversaw the early church leaders, he was not an elder. The office of deacon was also a position of leadership with it's own requirements, some shared by the elders, some not. There was no requirement of marriage in being an apostle, what Paul was.
     
    #8 webdog, Oct 6, 2009
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  9. Johnv

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    You must concur, then, that scripture allows women to oversee church leaders.
     
  10. Thinkingstuff

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    I think your use of Webster dictionary was taken out of Context.
     
  11. webdog

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    When was a woman ever deemed an apostle? None of the twelve were women. The text in question is dealing with the role of women elders, not apostles. A woman cannot oversee church leaders...another requirement given by Paul
     
    #11 webdog, Oct 6, 2009
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  12. Johnv

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    What scripture states that woman are not permitted to oversee church leaders?
     
  13. Jim1999

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    If you arre going to play around with different titles for pastors, why don't Baptist Churches have Bishops?

    In my group, we only recognize Pastors and deacons! In scripture we see varying responsibilities for pastors, but not different offices. This elder stuff is just more of modernity. If we follow Paul's example, all pastors would be single.

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  14. ReformedBaptist

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    Unbelieveable.
     
  15. webdog

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    Quite believable. You think he was an elder?! :confused: Do you actually ever debate? I don't see much leeway or option to "must be the husband of one wife"
     
    #15 webdog, Oct 6, 2009
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  16. webdog

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    1 Timothy 2:12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.
     
  17. webdog

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    A bishop is the same thing as an elder, overseer, pastor.

    If "this elder stuff is just more of modernity", why did Paul address it in the first century?

    I don't follow your logic in the last sentence. We can't follow Paul's example as we are not apostles.

    Why is it that everyone thinks Paul was an elder?!?
     
  18. Timsings

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    I once heard a teacher say that, because he was a Pharisee, Paul was required to be married. I have no source for this, just curious.

    Tim Reynolds
     
  19. gb93433

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    Some like the name reverend better.
     
  20. ReformedBaptist

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    I discuss.
     

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