In need of some guidance/information

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by jvargas, Jul 13, 2010.

  1. jvargas

    jvargas
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    I'm looking for some guidance from my Baptist brothers and sisters.

    I am currently an Assemblies of God youth pastor. I see a lot of problems with the denomination, though I do not want this to become a post bashing anyone.

    Long story short I am a Calvinist which does not jive with the beliefs of my denomination. I am interested in becoming aligned with another denomination and I am feeling drawn toward Baptist thought.

    The one thing that bothers me is the denial of some spiritual gifts.

    Are there any Baptist denominations/organizations that hold to both Calvinist thought and the works of the Spirit (tongues/prophecy)?

    Thanks for your help and if any MODS think this should be moved to a different section please do.
     
  2. ReformedBaptist

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    It is unlikely to find a baptist church, in general, that believes such gifts of the Holy Spirit are still operational in the churches. But, since Baptist churches are independent, then you will find some.

    In other words, there have been baptist congregations that have been influenced and accepted the charismatic/pentecostal movement. I think what you do need to do is share with your pastors/elders your concern and seek their counsel. It is honorable to let your leadership know if your change in doctrine from them.
     
  3. jvargas

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    We've talked at length about this over the last 3+ years. I've brought to them scriptures and my concerns a dozen times. It's the view of my immediate leadership (pastor, board of elders) that I can believe this way because it doesn't go against any of the 16 tenents of faith that the Assemblies hold to. I disagree on the grounds of tenent #5 (seen here).

    I wouldn't say that I'm in a crisis of theology, but if there is a a group that holds to similar understanding of scripture I would be interested to get involved.
     
  4. Revmitchell

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    What is it you disagree with specifically? You most likely will struggle to find a Baptist church that holds to the heretical teaching of tongues but if you google Dwight Mckissic in Arlington TX you might find what you are looking for. To find a Baptist church with the combination of Reformed and the false speaking in tongues I believe you find that even more difficult.
     
  5. gb93433

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    I find it interesting that you would help someone contact another whose theology you disagree with.

    So are you saying that 1 Cor 14:27-34 is no longer valid?

    1 Cor 14:27-24, If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God. Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints. The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are to subject themselves, just as the Law also says."
     
  6. jvargas

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    I think it exhibits a lot of character to help someone regardless of your agreement with them.

    Thank you!
     
  7. gb93433

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    To name the person as a heretic and then help him says something.

    I saw that sort of thing in the last church I pastored when the deacons invited the Mormon bishop to come and teach while the state and local association knew about it. Does that take character too?
     
  8. The Archangel

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    jvargas,

    My advice would be to look into Sovereign Grace Ministries: http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/.

    They are Calvinist and non-cessationist. Aside from that, I'm not sure of all their particulars. I know of C.J. Mahaney and he is quite a preacher.

    SGM runs their own pastor's college and they are heavily into church planting.

    Blessings,

    The Archangel
     
  9. jvargas

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    Thanks for this. I'm checking out the site now.
     
  10. Salty

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  11. Dr. Bob

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    Reminder - we normally would NOT allow a non-Baptist to post here (on Baptist-only thread), but will leave this thread open for suggestions to our brother seeking some sort of "baptistic" solution to his theological issue.

    jvargas is reminded that he may NOT post on any other thread or place in the "baptist only" section of the BB, but is welcome to post on the "christian only" sections. This is our policy.

    And my suggestion would also be sovereign grace links where many are very baptistic and open to gifts. My own church is called "Sovereign Grace", but not of that ilk.
     
  12. drfuss

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    AOG tenent #5 says:
    WE BELIEVE...Every Person Can Have Restored Fellowship with God Through 'Salvation' (trusting Christ, through faith and repentance, to be our personal Savior). [1 of 4 cardinal doctrines of the AG]

    I am wandering what your objection to the above is.

    Is your objection that it does not say "restored fellowship with God through regeneration?" What would you want it to say to satisfy your belief?

    No debate intended here, just wondering.
     
  13. Berean

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    As far as I know and have observed most baptist churches including SBC believe in the Gifts of the Spirit except the sign gifts.
     
  14. Eagle

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    Dr. Bob, I love this quote from your tag line, good stuff!

    "A Taxpayer supporting Barak Obama is like a Chicken supporting Colonel Sanders.

     
  15. jvargas

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    I think that the wording is purposefully left open. "Every person can" denies the doctrine of the elect, IMO. It also side steps the role that the drawing of the Father plays in salvation.
     
  16. RAdam

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    I would like you to consider the following section of scripture.

    1 Cor. 13

    8 - Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
    9 - For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
    10 - But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
    11 - When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understand as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

    I take this verse to mean that the gifts were given to the church in its infancy, when it was a child. Now that it has grown up, and we have something better than they had (the entirety of scripture), we don't need the childish things anymore. In any case, those gifts were given, says Hebrews, for confirmation. Now we have the whole bible for confirmation.

    Please consider this, my humble opinion on this subject. God bless you in your search.
     
  17. drfuss

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    The Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) does the same type of thing leaving it open ended, with its Baptist Faith and Message. The SBC is made up of both Calvinists and Non-Calvinists. The BF&M is worded such that both can identify with and accept it.
     
  18. thomas15

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    jvargas,I don't have any words of wisedom but I pray that you find what you are looking for.
     
  19. Alive in Christ

    Alive in Christ
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    Jvargas...

    I apologize to you for the one who, in escence, called you a heretic. :tonofbricks:


    As a Baptist myself, I wish there were more Baptists who were open to embracing ALL of the gifts of the Spirit.

    God bless

    AiC
     
  20. righteousdude2

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    This is Another One of those Topics that Show Division and Serves to Divide

    I don't want to throw my hat into this ring, because what I believe, through personal experience and observation, would only serve to drive a wedge between my theology and that of others on the board. Ans I don't want to cause a divide between those whom I dearly love, and fellowship with through the gift of cyber-space!

    I will say on this on the topic of gifts... if we "embrace" some of the gifts, IMHO, we must than consider "embracing" ALL of the gifts.

    And, just like our need to follow and apply Scripture to those gifts we so readily accept and "embrace", we must realize that the other, unmentionable gifts, are just as valid and useful in the propagation of the Gospel, as long as we apply Scripture and abide with the perimeters of Scripture when we implement those gifts.

    So, I guess I tossed my hat into the ring, and beg your forgiveness. And in closing, I prayerfully, and humbly hope that this made sense to you.

    Shalom,

    Pastor Paul :type:
     

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