In The West Respect for Truth No Longer Exists

Discussion in 'Politics' started by poncho, Aug 18, 2014.

  1. poncho

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    In The West Respect for Truth No Longer Exists

    Paul Craig Roberts

    The Western media have proved for all to see that the Western media comprises either a collection of ignorant and incompetent fools or a whorehouse that sells war for money.

    The Western media fell in step with Washington and blamed the downed Malaysian airliner on Russia. No evidence was provided. In its place the media used constant repetition. Washington withheld the evidence that proved that Kiev was responsible. The media’s purpose was not to tell the truth, but to demonize Russia.

    Now we have the media story of the armored Russian column that allegedly crossed into Ukraine and was destroyed by Ukraine’s rag-tag forces that ISIS would eliminate in a few minutes. British reporters fabricated this story or were handed it by a CIA operative working to build a war narrative. The disreputable BBC hyped the story without investigating. The German media, including Die Welt, blared the story throughout Germany without concern at the absence of any evidence. Reuters news agency, also with no investigation, spread the story. Readers tell me that CNN has been broadcasting the fake story 24/7. Although I cannot stand to watch it, I suspect Fox “news” has also been riding this lame horse hard. Readers tell me that my former newspaper, The Wall Street Journal, which has fallen so low as to be unreadable, also spread the false story. I hope they are wrong. One hates to see the complete despoliation of one’s former habitat.

    The media story is preposterous for a number of reasons that should be obvious to a normal person.

    Read More At: http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/17/west-respect-truth-longer-exists-paul-craig-roberts/
     
  2. InTheLight

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    Of course you can prove this.
     
  3. poncho

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    Washington Chokes Truth With Lies

    Paul Craig Roberts

    Are Western propagandists fooling anyone but themselves?

    The latest absurdity coming out of Ukraine, the EU and Washington is that the humanitarian aid that Russia and the Red Cross are trucking into the former Russian territories that comprise eastern Ukraine is a trick, a deception, a pretext for Russia’s invasion forces. Such a preposterous lie tells us that Western propagandists have no respect whatsoever for the intelligence of Western peoples.

    Even a moron should understand that if Russia wants to send military forces into Ukraine, Russia doesn’t need any pretext, much less a joint humanitarian venture with the Red Cross. The eastern Ukraine, following Crimea’s lead, has already voted both independence from Kiev and in favor of rejoining Russia. If Russia needed an excuse, the decisions by the eastern Ukrainians made months ago suffice. But Russia needs no excuse to rescue Russians from being slaughtered by Washington’s stooges like Palestinians in Gaza.

    By its inaction, the Russian government is providing Washington’s vassal states in Europe time to comprehend that Washington, not Russia, is the problem, and that Washington intends for the cost of its conflict with Russia to fall on Europeans.

    The opposition from Washington, Washington’s EU vassals, and Washington’s stooges in Kiev to the inflow of humanitarian aid is due to the West’s desperate attempt to keep the world from knowing about the massive destruction by Washington and its stooges of civilian lives, housing, and infrastructure in those former Russian territories who are directly threatened by the Russophobic extremists that Washington has installed in power in Kiev.

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/13/washington-chokes-truth-lies-paul-craig-roberts/
     
  4. Use of Time

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    I don't think you understand that posting an op-ed think piece is not providing proof. It is just another mans opinoin. A crazy opinion at that.
     
  5. poncho

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    Update: A fabricated report was spread by the UK Guardian newspaper and BBC that
    a Russian armored convoy entered Ukraine and was destroyed by the Ukrainian military. The German media including Die Welt picked up the false report and spread the hysteria. Once again we have confirmation that the Western media is corrupt and unreliable.

    The drums for war are being loudly beaten in Washington, European capitals, and the presstitute Western media. A headline in the Asia Times is “NATO Is Desperate For War.” http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Central_Asia/CEN-01-080814.html This time the target is Russia, a major nuclear power.

    The deadly consequences of such a war would extend beyond Russia, Europe, and the US to the entire world. The Western use of lies to demonize Russia endangers life on earth and reveals the West to be both reckless and irresponsible. Yet, few voices are raised against this recklessness and irresponsibility.

    Ron Unz brings to our attention the important voice of a distinguished Dutch journalist, Karel Van Wolferen. Wolferen http://www.unz.com/article/the-ukraine-corrupted-journalism-and-the-atlanticist-faith/ and Unz himself http://www.unz.com/runz/american-pravda-who-shot-down-flight-mh17-in-ukraine/ are important offsets to what Unz regards, correctly in my opinion, as “the utter corruption and unreliability of the mainstream American media.”

    http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/08/14/washington-placed-world-road-war-paul-craig-roberts/

    Proof? Who needs proof? TND doesn't. OR doesn't. CMG doesn't. The Rev doesn't. Well, let me clarify, they only require proof when someone else makes a statement. They have exempted themselves from this rule of having to provide proof to back up their own claims and "opinions". That's not only crazy and dangerous it's very hypocritical, IMHO.

    It's been proven (to a large segment of the population) that the mainstream media has always been Washington's biggest ally when it comes to forming public opinion in favor of starting a new war or intervention into the affairs of other nations.

    And when it all comes right down to it warmongering propaganda and the resulting public opinion is what allows Washington to start wars and meddle in other nation's affairs, not evidence. All they gotta do is play on your fears and biases without providing "proof" to get you all fired up to attack and they've done it over and over and over now.

    It's the same ole plays every time. I'm surprised y'all don't see the pattern yet. It's only as plain as the nose on your face.

     
    #5 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  6. OldRegular

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    Paul Craig Roberts is a nut!
     
  7. poncho

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    Nuttier than say someone who keeps repeating the same unproven allegations over and over and over as if that alone is enough to make them true?
     
    #7 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  8. OldRegular

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    You can side with the Russians if you want to do so. There have been many people in this country, starting with such notables as Alger Hiss and Eleanor Roosevelt who were devotees of Russia and the Soviet System. There still are. Most reside in the democrat party.

    History, going back several hundred years, shows that Russia has had a drive for expansion. That is not unusual in nations. It is a fact of history, Rome, Spain, and the British Empire perhaps being the most successful. But Russia still has that drive, especially after being defeated by Reagan without a shot being fired, and now under the influence if former KGB Colonel Putin with no one to checkmate him!

    Roberts should know this; that is why I think he is a nut!
     
    #8 OldRegular, Aug 18, 2014
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  9. InTheLight

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    I see you're talking to the mirror again.
     
  10. poncho

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    Okay show me where and how Putin has acted to "expand the Russian empire". And be true to history now don't leave out all the Washington, EU and NATO provocations such as planning, funding and supporting the "regime change" in Ukraine that restarted all of this cold war era Russian threat "war talk" up again.

    A word about Georgia before you try to use your slanted version of that old argument again . . . http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2008/08/12/the-united-states-shares-the-blame-for-the-russia-georgia-crisis

    Show me the proof OR.

    And tell me why exactly my asking you and the Baptist Board neocons to provide solid evidence to back up your oft repeated allegations against Russia makes me a "friend of Russia". It almost seems like you are trying to use the old "guilt by association" trick. Or could it be that ole "Hermann Goering" argument again? I thought you were above these kinds of dirty little tricks that CMG and the other devotees of the neocon ideology of "war, wars and more war, all the time everywhere" here are always trying to pull. But, apparently not.
     
    #10 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  11. ktn4eg

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    Remember the philosophy of "Manifest Destiny" that was popular in many segments of the American populace about 150 or so years ago?

    For those of you who don't, "Manifest Destiny" basically was the idea that it was the destiny of the US to occupy as much (if not all) of the North American continent as possible. In fact, there were even some who advocated that the US should control the entire western hemisphere.

    This idea was at least part of the reason why President Jefferson approved the Louisiana Purchase--an act that had very questionable Constitutional legitimacy.

    Moreover, it was also part of the reason why the US declared war with England in 1812. It was also one of the reasons we declared war with Mexico in 1846 and with Spain in 1898.

    Our nation was--and still is--involved in the internal affairs of several other nations all over the world, many of which were/are our supposed allies. This interference often times had the result of not only turning some of these "friendly" nations into subsequently becoming enemies of the US, but also causing the deaths of many innocent Americans.

    Personally, I think it's high time that we take an honest re-evaluation of our national foreign policy and stop acting as the world's policeman when it comes to the US interfering in the internal affairs of other independent, sovereign nations.
     
  12. poncho

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    I remember the 935 unproven allegations the Bush administration leveled against Iraq and how the mainstream media repeated them over and over and over again without question. Just as it has done with all the unproven allegations Washington makes in order to keep us fearful and on a constant and very profitable war footing.

    http://www.publicintegrity.org/2014/06/20/14975/finding-truth-935-lies-about-war-iraq

    Indeed, Russia can only be said to be an "aggressive" and "imperial" power so long as one accepts the unrelenting hypocrisy of U.S. and Western leaders. After all, it was not Russia that invaded and occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, killing millions. It is not Putin, but rather Barack Obama, who has waged a "global terror campaign," compiling "kill lists" and using flying killer robots to bomb countries like Afghanistan, Pakistan, Iraq, Yemen, Libya, Somalia, and even the Philippines, killing thousands of people around the world. It is not Putin, but rather, Barack Obama, who has been sending highly-trained killers into over 100 countries around the world at any given time, waging a "secret war" in most of the world's nations. It was not Russia, but rather the United States, that has supported the creation of "death squads" in Iraq, contributing to the mass violence, civil war and genocide that resulted; or that has been destabilizing Pakistan, a nuclear-armed nation, increasing the possibility of nuclear war.

    All of these actions are considered to be a part of America's strategy to secure 'stability,' to promote 'peace' and 'democracy.' It's Russia that threatens "the peace and stability of the world," not America or its NATO and Western allies. That is, of course, if you believe the verbal excretions from Western political leaders. The reality is that the West, with the United States as the uncontested global superpower, engages the rest of the world on the basis of 'Mafia Principles' of international relations: the United States is the global 'Godfather' of the Mafia crime family of Western industrial nations (the NATO powers). Countries like Russia and China are reasonably-sized crime families in their own right, but largely dependent upon the Godfather, with whom they both cooperate and compete for influence.

    When the Mafia - and the Godfather - are disobeyed, whether by small nations (such as Iraq, Syria, Libya, et. al.), or by larger gangster states like China or Russia, the Godfather will seek to punish them. Disobedience cannot be tolerated. If a small country can defy the Godfather, then any country can. If a larger gangster state like Russia can defy the Godfather and get away with it, they might continue to challenge the authority of the Godfather.

    For the U.S. and its NATO-capo Mafia allies, Ukraine and Russia have presented a complex challenge: how does one punish Russia and control Ukraine without pushing Russia too far outside the influence of the Mafia, itself? In other words, the West seeks to punish Russia for its "defiance" and "aggression," but, if the West pushes too hard, it might find a Russia that pushes back even harder. That is, after all, how we got into this situation in the first place.

    A little historical context helps elucidate the current clash of gangster states. Put aside the rhetoric of "democracy" and let's deal with reality.


    Read More At: http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/west-marches-east-part-one.html#.U_JR0fldV8E
     
    #12 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  13. Salty

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    I wonder how many unproven allegations were made by the Colonists made against England and King George.
     
  14. OldRegular

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    What does regime change in the Ukraine have to do with Russia taking Crimea?

    Last I checked Georgia was just across the Savannah River from South Carolina

    I am not sure but I believe you are trying to insult me calling me a "new Conservative.} FYI poncho I have been a Conservative all my life. I was a conservative before you were a gleam in someone's eye. Sadly poncho you are sounding more like Crabtownboy every day. You need to wean yourself offen that nutty guy you are quoting.

    As for war I know a little about it. My father served during WWI, five brothers served during WWII, I thank GOD four returned. I served during Korea and I thank GOD routinely that I never made it to Korea to fight in Truman's War. I know some who did not make it back from there!

    All that being said history shows that Russia has always attempted to expand its borders and under the ex-KGB man still is!
     
  15. poncho

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    Here they are, you count em.

    He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.
    He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance, unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.
    He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people, unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.
    He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant from the depository of their public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into compliance with his measures.
    He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness his invasions on the rights of the people.
    He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
    He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.
    He has obstructed the Administration of Justice, by refusing his Assent to Laws for establishing Judiciary powers.
    He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone, for the tenure of their offices, and the amount and payment of their salaries.
    He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
    He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
    He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil power.
    He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
    For Quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
    For protecting them, by a mock Trial, from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
    For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:
    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefits of Trial by Jury:
    For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences
    For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies:
    For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws, and altering fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:
    For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
    He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
    He has plundered our seas, ravaged our Coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the lives of our people.
    He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head of a civilized nation.
    He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
    He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.


    http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html
     
    #15 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  16. poncho

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    Everything. But you can't allow it to be factored in the equation or your narrative might even sound hypocritical to you and your "good guy vs bad guy" paradigm might be in danger of collapse.

    Funny.

    If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, quacks like a duck.


    Age doesn't always = wisdom. One has to consider all the available evidence objectively to be make wise decisions. You are discounting all the available evidence that doesn't fit your narrative. Therefore your age means nothing in this discussion. I'm old enough to recognize an unproven allegation when I see one. And I've seen a lot of them from the Clinton, Bush and Obama regimes and the mainstream media that is supposed to inform us instead of form public opinions that favor war, wars and more wars, all the time everywhere.

    So now you are attempting to insult me.

    Yeah and why is that, because he shows your allegations for what they really are, dangerous unproven allegations?

    And yet you think nothing of encouraging the start of another world war on as such still unproven allegations? How many people are you willing to send to their death over Washington and the media's unproven allegations? It's okay to round it off to the nearest thousand or million as this may be the case after you get your war with Russia.

    I hear you saying it, over and over and over but I still don't see you proving it!

    Show me this proof. If you can say it with such confidence then you ought to be able to prove it the same way.

    Have at it.
     
    #16 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  17. InTheLight

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    You have rules for you (not having to answer questions or provide evidence to back up you and your conspiracy theorist friends allegations) and rules for others (having to prove every word we say).

    Tell ya what when you can stop being so blatantly hypocritical come on back and maybe we'll be able to have a real conversation about real issues.

    Until then I fully expect you'll read the "news" from your "credible sources" and react by making more allegations you cannot prove and do not question, over and over and over as if that alone is enough to make them true while accusing others that do have questions of doing the same thing.
     
  18. poncho

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    And so, in the more than ten years since Georgia's U.S. and NATO-supported colour revolution, the West - particularly the United States - have increased Georgia's military capabilities, armed and trained its forces, all the while aggravating Russia as NATO and Western military, political and economic influence spread ever-closer to its borders. This ultimately resulted in a war. Though, since then - and with the recent conflict in Ukraine - it is clear that rearming Georgia and further aggravating Russia is back on the agenda.

    The hypocrisy and imperious expansionism of the West in Georgia is but a minor reflection of a similar process which has been taking place across much of Eastern Europe, and most especially in Ukraine. Thus, despite the never-ending proclamations of "Russian aggression," it is once again the Western powers, NATO, the EU, the IMF and especially the United States that are the most to blame for the current conflict in Ukraine.

    The 2008 war in Georgia had seemingly put an end - or a halt - on NATO's eastward expansion. Russia had - after 18 years of NATO expansion - finally drawn a line in the sand over how much it was willing to put up with. It was clear, then, that a similar process with Ukraine, a much larger and more strategically significant country than Georgia, was sure to incur a military response from Russia. If anything, the only surprise is that Russia's military response has been so minimal, comparatively speaking; at least, for the time being. But as this process continues in response to Ukraine's crisis, and as NATO and the U.S. military, the EU and the IMF accelerate their advance eastward, future conflict is seemingly all but inevitable.

    No doubt, when that conflict comes, we will once again hear the amnesic proclamations of "Russian aggression" and Western benevolence.

    http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/west-marches-east-part-two.html#.U_JkK_ldV8G
     
  19. poncho

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    The difference is I do provide evidence. You dismiss it by muttering something about "conspiracy theories". The shoe is on your foot now.

    I asked you to prove your claim that "Russia invaded Ukraine". Have you been able to find that proof yet?

    I mean besides the Atlantic Council of international banker blogers that are looking to cash in on the Ukrainian's resources? In other words the "credible ones" you rely on to tell you the truth who just happen to stand to benefit most from the destabilization of Ukraine.

    You've had ample time to find it.
     
    #19 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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  20. poncho

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    The Ukraine, Corrupted Journalism, and the Atlanticist Faith

    The TV news programs I saw in the days immediately afterwards had invited, among other anti–Russian expositors, American neocon-linked talking heads to do the disclosing to a puzzled and truly shaken up audience. A Dutch foreign policy specialist explained that the foreign minister or his deputy could not go to the site of the crash (as Malaysian officials did) to recover the remains of Dutch citizens, because that would amount to an implicit recognition of diplomatic status for the “separatists”. When the European Union en bloc recognizes a regime that has come into existence through an American initiated coup d’état, you are diplomatically stuck with it.

    The inhabitants and anti-Kiev fighters at the crash site were portrayed, with images from youtube, as uncooperative criminals, which for many viewers amounted to a confirmation of their guilt. This changed when later reports from actual journalists showed shocked and deeply concerned villagers, but the discrepancy was not explained, and earlier assumptions of villainy did not make way for any objective analysis of why these people might be fighting at all.

    Tendentious twitter and youtube ‘news’ had become the basis for official Dutch indignation with the East Ukrainians, and a general opinion arose that something had to be set straight, which was, again in general opinion, accomplished by a grand nationally televised reception of the human remains (released through Malaysian mediation) in a dignified sober martial ceremony.

    Nothing that I have seen or read even intimated that the Ukraine crisis – which led to coup and civil war – was created by neoconservatives and a few R2P (“Responsibility to Protect”) fanatics in the State Department and the White House, apparently given a free hand by President Obama. The Dutch media also appeared unaware that the catastrophe was immediately turned into a political football for White House and State Department purposes. The likelihood that Putin was right when he said that the catastrophe would not have happened if his insistence on a cease-fire had been accepted, was not entertained.

    As it was, Kiev broke the cease-fire – on the 10th of June – in its civil war against Russian speaking East Ukrainians who do not wish to be governed by a collection of thugs, progeny of Ukrainian nazis, and oligarchs enamored of the IMF and the European Union. The supposed ‘rebels’ have been responding to the beginnings of ethnic cleansing operations (systematic terror bombing and atrocities – 30 or more Ukrainians burned alive) committed by Kiev forces, of which little or nothing has penetrated into European news reports.

    It is unlikely that the American NGOs, which by official admission spent 5 billion dollars in political destabilization efforts prior to the February putsch in Kiev, have suddenly disappeared from the Ukraine, or that America’s military advisors and specialized troops have sat idly by as Kiev’s military and militias mapped their civil war strategy; after all, the new thugs are as a regime on financial life-support provided by Washington, the European Union and IMF. What we know is that Washington is encouraging the ongoing killing in the civil war it helped trigger.

    But Washington has constantly had the winning hand in a propaganda war against, entirely contrary to what mainstream media would have us believe, an essentially unwilling opponent. Waves of propaganda come from Washington and are made to fit assumptions of a Putin, driven and assisted by a nationalism heightened by the loss of the Soviet empire, who is trying to expand the Russian Federation up to the borders of that defunct empire. The more adventurous punditry, infected by neocon fever, has Russia threatening to envelop the West. Hence Europeans are made to believe that Putin refuses diplomacy, while he has been urging this all along. Hence prevailing propaganda has had the effect that not Washington’s but Putin’s actions are seen as dangerous and extreme. Anyone with a personal story that places Putin or Russia in a bad light must move right now; Dutch editors seem insatiable at the moment.

    Read more At: http://www.unz.com/article/the-ukraine-corrupted-journalism-and-the-atlanticist-faith/

    Now before the BB neocons and ITL can come out with their usual "shoot the messenger" and "conspiracy theory" rebuttals if they can be called that, let me introduce you to the author of this piece.

    Karel van Wolferen

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karel_van_Wolferen#Career_as_journalist.2C_writer_and_academic


    Not a shred of evidence? Hey that's the same amount of evidence I've been getting whenever I ask for it! Coincidence?


    http://www.unz.com/article/the-ukraine-corrupted-journalism-and-the-atlanticist-faith/
     
    #20 poncho, Aug 18, 2014
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