Inadvertant Prayers to Satan?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Dr. Bob, Dec 29, 2003.

  1. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob
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    Probably one BILLION people will vainly repeat the Lord's Prayer this week. These people are not born again (by their own admission they would not desire to be classified as evangelical).

    And they pray, "Our father, who are in heaven . . "

    And WHO is their father? Jesus said to the false religionists in John 8:44, "If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do."

    And IS their father, Satan, in heaven? Job 1-2 indicates he certainly has daily access there, condemning the saints and accusing the brethren.

    And so when they pray, are they inadvertantly praying to Satan and giving HIM the glory and devotion?
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

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    Dr Bob,

    I found the appropriate place for my post #666 ;) .

    I don't think these dear deluded folks are praying to Satan. I think for the most part they are just saying words. Those who do think about what they are saying are doing it out ignorance, but in sincerity.

    IMHO I don't think anyone can pray to Satan unless they know they are praying to him.
     
  3. Watchman

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    If they are not for Him, they are against Him, so you may be right.
     
  4. Tim

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    But some of the phrases just don't fit. Regardless of one's eschatology, Satan's kingdom isn't coming--it's going down! And there's also this sticky issue of forgiving sins. Not to mention delivering FROM evil (even if "evil" means trouble) Satan's sure not in that business.

    I think it's a stretch, Dr. Bob. Is this some new Griffinite cultish thing?

    Tim
     
  5. Charles Meadows

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    I'd have to say they are NOT praying to Satan. They may be just "clanging cymbals" though!

    I assume some of those people who pray it "worldwide" are Roman Catholic. Even though they have some pretty questionable doctrines there are still many Catholics who ARE Christians.
     
  6. RoleTroll

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    Inadvertant prayers to Satan? Could the same be said of any denomination that has even the slightest error in its doctrines? I don't think that Satan is a "father in heaven" that one can pray to.
     
  7. Ps104_33

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    Jesus said to use not vain repititions as the heathen do which is what the "Our Father" is. It was a model prayer to be used as a template when He was teaching the disciples how to pray. It should really be called the "Disciples' Prayer".

    The view now advocated regarding the purpose of the Lord's Prayer is in harmony with the spirit of Christ's whole teaching. Liturgical forms and religious methodism in general were much more congenial to the strict ascetic school of the Baptist than to the free school of Jesus. Our Lord evidently attached little importance to forms of prayer, any more than to fixed periodic fasts, else He would not have waited till He was asked for a form, but would have made systematic provision for the wants of His followers, even as the Baptist did, by, so to speak, compiling a book of devotion or composing a liturgy. It is evident, even from the present instructions on the subject of praying, that Jesus considered the form He supplied of quite subordinate importance: a mere temporary remedy for a minor evil, the want of utterance, till the greater evil, the want of faith, should be cured; for the larger portion of the lesson is devoted to the purpose of supplying an antidote to unbelief.[6.14]
    From " The Training of the Twelve" AB Bruce
     
  8. Johnv

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    The simple solution is for each individual to make sure their recitation of the Lord's Prayer is not vain.
    A person's desire to not be slapped with a label should not be construed to mean they don't have a personal relationship with Christ. I personally hate the term "born again". It's almost become a bumber sticker on one's forehead to be displayed like an Izod crocodile on a golf shirt. I almost never identify myself as being born again. The way some of my fellow evangelical acquaintences spew holier than thou attitudes often makes me ashamed to be associated with them. But I am, and have a personal relationship with my Savior, Jesus Christ, and I will not allow myself to be labeled, branded, or marketed by my fellow Christian brethren.
     
  9. Johnv

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    Simply repeating a prayer is NOT vain repetition. If that were so, we'd be guilty of vain repetition every time we read aloud from the Bible.

    Jesus does not warn against repetition, only vain repetition. What makes it vain or not vain is the sincerity of the one reciting it.
     
  10. Ps104_33

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    thats ridiculous
     
  11. RoleTroll

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    Couldn't the Bible have said, "Don't make vain prayers like the heathens, who pray to powerless objects." Sure. What makes it vain - the fact that it's prayer? No, it's vain because of what's being prayed to.

    Similary, aren't the heathens' vain repetitions vain because they are praying to false gods? If their prayers were to real gods that appreciated it, wouldn't their prayers not be in vain?
     
  12. Paul of Eugene

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    Our Lord also had strong words about the purpose of our pious acts. Do we do them to be seen of men? IF SO, we have had our reward; we've been seen by men, and that's it; such a prayer would qualify as a vain prayer, would it not?

    Heavenly Father, forgive me for the times I have prayed in public only to be seen of men.
     
  13. RaptureReady

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    Kinda makes you wonder why some versions say in Luke 11:2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Father, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. (ASV) What happen to "which art in Heaven" as in And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

    You know what I believe happened here. Lucifer's typo.
     
  14. Dr. Bob

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    How silly. In Matthew ALL the greek texts include "kingdom". In Mark ALL the greek texts include "kingdom".

    So some poor, well-meaning scribe comes to Luke and it DOESN'T have "kingdom" in that Greek text, so what does he do?? He KNOWS it's part of Matthew and Mark so he adds it in. It BELONGS there, doesn't it?

    I know some people who believe all the Italicized words BELONG in the Bible too (since the AV put them in). And the apocrypha. Christians ADD stuff all the time. Nature of the beast.

    Rather than let the believer put it all together, he does it for them. And hundreds of copies of copies of copies add that in.

    Until somebody says Hey, the older documents DON'T have it there. It IS in Matthew and Mark, so it's not some evil conspiracy (Lucifer - how ridiculous). It is simply an attempt at accuracy and academic honesty.

    Another reason why some modern versions get my vote.
     
  15. RaptureReady

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    So why didn't he add it?
     
  16. Dr. Bob

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    Using an analogy and got carried away. Actual fact (sorry for the confusion) is

    Eastern text type has
    Matthew 6 "Our Father, the one in the heavens"
    Luke 11 "Our Father, the one in the heavens"

    Western text type has
    Matthew 6 "Our Father, the one in the heavens"
    Luke 11 "Our Father"

    Concept is that (1) Western type of texts REMOVED it in one place but not the other which makes NO SENSE AT ALL. If you're out to degrade the text, zap it all! Or (2)Eastern type of texts ADDED the words found in Matthew to the verse that didn't have it in Luke so they would match!

    I could see myself doing that so it would all match! No evil intent; just helping the text along!
     
  17. tinytim

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    So why didn't he add it? </font>[/QUOTE]To teach onlyists that two things that mean the same doesn't have to repeat themselves.
    please don't hi-jack this thread with onlyist baloney.
     

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