Incorporated Churches BEWARE.

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by Jailminister, Jun 23, 2003.

  1. Jailminister

    Jailminister
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    I recently recieved an email from Jay Sekelow, of the American Center for Law and Justice. It stemeed from this news realease.

    In the e-mail he went on to say that if a church or a minister says anything within this 60 day period, that they would be in violtion of this law. The only way I see out of this is to disincorporate the churches and get out of the 501c-3 status.

    What is your thought?
     
  2. Hardsheller

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    I think not, Because we'd open our churches and individual members up to an even greater financial risk than we have now.
     
  3. Artimaeus

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    I seriously doubt that this is a true statement.

    OH, NO!!! THIS IS MY POST # 666 :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  4. Jailminister

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    Is this all we are concerned about is "financial". When the government can tell you what to say and what not to say, then is financial concerns is what we are concerned about. I think not. The 501c-3 is a creature of the state , not of God. We need to get out of it.

    Serious dobt if you want to, but if you don't believe me, call jay Sekelow. He will be arguing the cas on July 7, 2003 before the Supreme Court.
     
  5. Hardsheller

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    Let's cancel our church insurance as well then because it's not scripturally mandated either!
     
  6. Jailminister

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    That is ok with me. What are you insuring anyway. Surely not liability?
     
  7. Bartimaeus

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    Come Sheckels, Come Shackels!

    Thanks ------Bart
     
  8. Artimaeus

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    Jailminister, I wasn't doubting the whole story or even you. Just the one statmment that the law would prohibit churches and ministers from saying anything within 30/60 days of a primary/election.
     
  9. Jailminister

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    Well according to Sekelow, that is why they are going before the Supreme Court because it does.
     
  10. Johnv

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    In the e-mail he went on to say that if a church or a minister says anything within this 60 day period, that they would be in violtion of this law. The only way I see out of this is to disincorporate the churches and get out of the 501c-3 status.

    What is your thought?


    My thought is that if a church starts acting like a political action committee, then it should refile its 501c-3 status as a charitable organization instead of as a religious organization. Calling oneself a "church" does not a "church" make.
     
  11. Jailminister

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    Johnv, think about this. Who is responsible for moral guidance in this country?

    If it is the government, then you may be right.

    If it is the church, then you are wrong.

    The government is saying don't get involved with the political, or moral discussions in your church since we(government) sanction you and allow tax deductions(takes money out of the coffers). Just keep your mouths shut or we will take away your tax status or now even fine you or possibly arrest you.
     
  12. Johnv

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    No, that's not it at all. Such a charitable organization would be allowed to be tax exempt. But the 501c-3 status are there to protect us, the folks who give to these groups. They are required to tell us what kind of group they are, and they are expected to act like that sort of group. If they're acting like political action committes, then they can continue to remain tax exempt, but must file as a political fundraising organization, so we can plainly see what kind of organization they are.

    Contrary to your assertion, the Governmnet here isn't saying don't get involved in political discussion, it's saying don't make political discussion your prime purpose. Otherwise, you fail to be a church and start becoming a ploitical organization.
     
  13. Terry_Herrington

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    I don't believe it is the job of government to tell churches what their prime purpose is.
     
  14. Artimaeus

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    I found this at a site called the International Brotherhood of Electrical Workerss . I found this and similar at other places and they don't even hint about churches or ministers or individual Christians practicing their freedom of speech.

     
  15. go2church

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    Incorporation protects more then the money of a church. It also protects the members of the church. If you want to be a political group making political commentary don't start a church!
     
  16. Peter101

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    I think that the following is a little clearer explanation of what the organization actually says about the political activity of churches:

    "The Internal Revenue Code does not restrict churches' right to speak out on the moral and political issues of the day, but it does prohibit churches from speaking out on the qualifications of candidates for public office.(1) In exchange for receipt of tax-exempt status, I.R.C. § 501(c)(3) absolutely prohibits churches and other tax-exempt organizations from campaigning for or against a candidate for public office:"
     
  17. Jailminister

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    Peter and Johnv. Listen to what you are saying. What is wrong with a church speaking out for and against someone who is detrimental to us. How dare the government tell us what to say and what not to say. We might as well be under the King of England. THINK THINK. The 501c-3 is not for help it is for control. THINK THINK.

     
  18. Johnv

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    Listen to what you are saying.
    Okay..... up. It still sounds reasonable.

    What is wrong with a church speaking out for and against someone who is detrimental to us.
    Nothing. There IS, however, something wrong with churches making it their main focus to endorse specific political candidates as a matter of course.

    How dare the government tell us what to say and what not to say.
    The government isn't. The government is saying that if you're acting like a political organization, then you must file for tax exempt status as a political organization so that everyone knows what you are.
     
  19. Johnv

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    Then if a man wants to start a church of prostitution, he can be allowed to? Instead of getting a sermon, you can make a donation and get a prostitute? Nope, sorry, that's been tested in the courts and falied.
     
  20. Jailminister

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    Johnv said
    The government is, johnv. The Constitution said that the government can not interfere with the church. Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

    You see that is pretty simple. However when you take the yoke of being a creature of the state(501c-3) then they have a right to tell you what to say, if they want to do so.
     

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