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Individual freedom excommunicated organized doctrine

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by ReformedBaptist, Aug 15, 2008.

  1. rsr

    rsr <b> 7,000 posts club</b>
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    I certainly don't want to force a confession on anyone either, yet I do consider it might be prudent for new members to have some inkling of what the rest of the congregation believes and/or where they might expect to be at some future point in their faith journey.
     
  2. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    Confessions could be good, but invoke the words of Jesus:

    Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age." (Matt 28:19-20, TNIV, emphasis added)

    Teach new believers what Jesus commands. If they're transferring from another denomination, then that's another matter.
     
  3. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
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    Sorry for attributing the "bunk" quote to you RB. :flower:

    I've been following aspects of the Enns controversy in the blog The Naked Bible , Peter Heiser has been examining the topic of inerrancy for the past two months.

    You can close your eyes to evidences and retreat to a 18th century (or earlier) position of inerrancy found within the confessions or you can acknowledge the evidence and attempt to intergrate it into your beliefs... that's what Enns was attempting to do.

    In any case, one of the first things I did when looking for a church was examine their 'Statement of Faith'.

    Too many miss the mark by adding more than the Bible says.
    I chose my church for many reasons but joined the fellowship knowing I had minor disagreements but on the whole believed alike.
    In my experence, a 'one hour' confession would eliminate most people from a fellowship (too detailed);
    those that do join probably do so without ever having read it.

    Rob
     
  4. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Amen. This is an oxymoron by what the definition of "church" is.
    Amen. It is not our place. This is one of those "tri-C's" (cultural church commandment)
    There is none. Another "Tri-C" :)
     
  5. jcjordan

    jcjordan New Member

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    So could the devil.
     
  6. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    RB,

    Needs to realize how harmful his creeds and confessions could be. Maybe it's his use of them.
     
  7. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    If I am understanding this statement correctly, your saying I need to understand how harmful my creeds and confessions could be. I do understand how they can be misused. But because I danger might exist in the use of them does not mean they should be abandoned. You say that we are commanded to disciple people and teach them all that Christ commanded. I agree. The creed can do just this. It is a tool by which we may teach the doctrines of God in a systematic and logical manner. It also aims at precision. An unwillingness to be precise in matters of doctrine, espeically in light of the errors assaulting the church I find to be irresponsible and symptomatic of the church's doctrinal fidelity and the elder's care of their flock.

    The church professes to be the pillar and ground of the truth but is unwilling to publically declare it and defend it?

    Those who are ardent defenders of the use of confessions are on record as saying, "When any generation is content to rely upon its theological heritage and refuses to explore for itself the riches of divine revelation, then declension is already under way and heterodoxy will be the lot of the succeeding generation." -Murray.

    The use of a thorough confession does not mean a departure from Scripture. In fact, I believe it means a mark of honesty and integrity. Should not a man be what he says he is? Should not a church be what it says it is? Let a man or a church be without a public written record of what it affirms and when it is beguiled by satan it will have much darkness to hide in.

    Here on the BB much discussion and debates are made and contention ensues over what it is someone believes. There is no ambiguity about what I believe. You don't have to sift through 1000s of unrelated posts as a public declaration of my faith, which I testify is that true faith once delievered to the saints. A clear and logical exposition of my faith is clearly laid out in the confession of my faith which is on public record for all to see.

    And anyone on the BB has the right to hold me to it.

    RB
     
  8. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    RB,

    As I said, confessions and creeds can be helpful.

    I rather an open Bible with the Spirit as my teacher than some human confession.

    Confessions and creeds may be good for denominations, but if they seek to divide the body of Christ over disputable matters, I say throw them away.

    What if I'm dispensational in my eschatology and your church confession is covenantal, I'm I not allowed to place membership there?
     
  9. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    To the first part of your reply, I offer a rebuke to you in the words of C.H. Spurgeon,

    Concerning the second part of your question, in order to be a member of good standing at Berean Baptist these are the fundamentals we would expect:

    As to the exhaustive particulars laid out in the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, to be a member, you would be free to hold contrary views but not permitted to teach them.
     
  10. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    What do you mean by rebuke?
     
  11. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    I mean it in the plain sense. Your response, I believe, was best replied in the first by a rebuke. You seem to be writing in a manner and taking an attitude that you are in no need of those who were in Christ before you. I think that is folly.
     
  12. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    How many times have I written that confessions could be helpful?

    Am I not clear on that?
     
    #32 TCGreek, Aug 17, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 17, 2008
  13. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Saying something could be something is not saying something is something. What you did say, that has given me the impression of a mistake is this:

    "I rather an open Bible with the Spirit as my teacher than some human confession."

    So I think Spurgeon's remark is very fitting for you. Do you not suppose the Christians in responding to the Arian heresy were taught by the Holy Spirit? Or those who wrote the Savoy? Or the 1689? Or the Westminster?

    Sure, they are the works of men. No one is denying that. But there is much benefit in them for churches and individual Christians.

    While you say you see there could be, or can be, a good use of them, the way you are writing gives the impression more of a disdain for it than anything else.

    Honestly TC, if you have no public, written, confession of your faith (although most certainly you have an unwritten creed) then I really don't know what you believe. You have said that yours can simply be "Jesus is Lord." What Lord? does this mean master, or God? Is your Jesus created or uncreated? Is Jesus the Father or are the Father and the Son distinct?

    Now, having seen you post I believe your orthodox on those points, so please let the questions not be miscontrued. But do you see the point?

    RB
     
  14. TCGreek

    TCGreek New Member

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    I have a written confession.

    But I still hold to simply, "Jesus is Lord." And when someone asks, It's an opportunity to take them to what the Bible says.
     
  15. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    Ok. :godisgood:
     
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