Individual words of KJV editions

So then you're saying that the social and moral decay of man is now the will of God?

And all this time I thought it was the evil that satan communicated that caused men to stray from what is established as the will of God.

No one is restricting God to the language spoken 400 years ago, but certainly God hasn't changed and is not still guessing on how to say things so every man can understand.

Jesus spoke in parables in the language that even the most educated knew very well, yet they were blind.

It's funny how these Bible scholars seem to think themselves wise, yet even the least educated can understand how to be saved when the Spirit is at work.

 

So then the Originals could not be trustworthy?

 

If you think that all or even most modern versions are the products of modernists then you are the [personal attack snipped] person you mentioned in that previous post and should be ashamed of your lack of diligence to acquire the knowledge needed to preach to the culture in which we live.

Translating the Bible into the common vernacular of today is no more "modernist" than when Wycliffe or the KJV translators translated it into theirs.

 

Salamander, that has absolutely nothing to do with what I said and you know it. You apparently don't like the way the topic is going, so you want to change course onto something else. Let's stay with the topic and not go off on one of your tangents designed to take the focus off your own weak position.

God chose to protect the meaning of what the Bible says. He did not choose to protect the meanings of the individual words. This is evidenced by the change in the meanings of some words over the centuries since the KJV was translated. A good example of this is the word prevent. This word meant one thing in 1611 but it means something entirely differendt now in 2006. So how is it that God chose to protect the individual words yet permitted their meanings to change?

 

If they would approach the task AS the AV translators did,it would be fine.

 

Then Modern Versions (MVs)
like the KJV1769 Edition (with no 'translation' )are NOT FINE;
MVs like the NKJV (new King James Version) and the
HCSB = Christian Standard Bible /Holman, 2003) are FINE
because they approached the translation task as
did the KJV1611 Edition translators did.

 

I'm amazed at your intelligence,uh, ignorance, to the fact that Jesus DECLARED they could not understand His parables due to their unbelief. It is believers that Jesus reveals His Word, not intellectuals.

If your attempt to disqualify my statements by calling me an "ignorant person" is the best you can do, then gimme more! :laugh:

You argue against the very Word you claim.:sleep:

 

If God didn't choose, as you say, to protect the meanings of the original words, then how is it anyone knows what God ever said?

BTW, if you can't handle some one taking what you say and confronting your false dictohmy, [inflammatory comments snipped]
The very words that God spoke to Adam were changed into "hath God said" by the serpent, and you sau God doesn't protect the very meanings of words as if they now lose their original definition?:laugh:

I suppose "root meanings" don't MEAN anything to you Bible scholars:laugh:

 

They can't, their "intelligence" demands different. [inflammatory comments snipped]

 

[inflammatory comments snipped] They also used [attack on Bible snipped] MSS to "correct" the Word of God. Be honest Ed, you know, [personal attack snipped]

 

Please address the fact that over hundreds of years scribes of the Hebrew and Greek Scriptures purposefully and painstakingly copied the exact words; did these languages not change over time as well?

 

Of course they did, but we are talking about one random English version, not manuscripts.

Why not insist on painstaking diligence to preserving the Wycliffe Bible and not allowing a single word to change?

Why was it acceptable for the KJV translators to change the words of the English Bible, but unacceptable for anyone since then to do so?

 

I don't recall saying this.

Agreed

By not allowing for the validity of versions in modern language, you are limiting God to the language of 400 years ago. Unless I misunderstand you and your position is that KJV is the best of all the current versions out there and you are leaving the possibility open that a new translation could surpass it for the modern day, but just hasn't happened yet? :smilewinkgrin:

That is because it takes the witness of the Holy Spirit to understand the Word and they had hardened their hearts against Him.

Amazing what the Lord can do!!! He can open the eyes of the foolish among us (for who among us is wise?). Be careful, though - You don't want to give the impression that you despise those who have studied the word more than most of us, would you?

:godisgood:

 

Salamander:If God didn't choose, as you say, to protect the meanings of the original words, then how is it anyone knows what God ever said?

Simple...God caused updates to be made, and His word to appear in many languages. Thus, we have modern versions in our languages that use, say, prevent, as WE use it today. God protects the meanings of the original words by causing them to be reflected in versions updated to convey those meanings in the language style current for the time. Thus, Wycliffe's Bible was current for 1380s English, the KJV for early 1600s English, the NKJV or NASB for today's English.

BTW, if you can't handle some one taking what you say and confronting your false dictohmy, [inflammatory comments snipped]

I can handle it very easily, with the TRUTH VS GUESSWORK, and so can Keith.


The very words that God spoke to Adam were changed into "hath God said" by the serpent,

No, they were NOT changed. The serpent(Satan) asked a rhetorical question, I.E. "Did God REALLY say that?" while quoting God's words.

and you sau God doesn't protect the very meanings of words as if they now lose their original definition?:

No, He updates them as the languages change, with words in a given language or style of languages that convey the meanings of God's original words to His chosen penmen, that He spoke to them in THEIR languages. Jesus, on the cross, said,"Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani". Would YOU know what he said if it wasn't updated-interpreted for you?

I suppose "root meanings" don't MEAN anything to you Bible scholars

Actually, they mean a LOT more to such people than they do for fans of the one-version myths. For example, new versions replace prevent with precede in 1 Thess. 4:15, as WE view prevent as meaning "keep from happening", and the Greek root word here is pthano, which meant to precede or anticipate. Thus, the newer version reflects the change in the language and better conveys the meaning of the Greek root word to TODAY'S readers than the old version does.

So apparently, CORRECT CURRENT LANGUAGE USAGE that reflects the meaning of the basic manuscripts means nothing to certain old stuck-in-the-muds, as shown by their criticism of that correct usage.

 

The interesting thing is that you don't recognize the ignorance of this response. They didn't understand because of unbelief... not because he used grammar and diction that they weren't accustomed to.

Whether someone believes or not has no effect on whether they can understand KJV English. In fact, an unbeliever educated in Shakespeare is far more likely to recognize the exact meaning than your average KJVO pew sitter.

The KJV translators were uniformly intellectuals. There is good evidence that some of them were either not believers at all or were quite unChristlike in their treatment of Baptists and other dissenters from the CoE.

Nope. The Word never says anything about the KJV or any other English version... and I don't claim the vain, presumptive declarations of KJVO pseudo-fundamentalist scholars.

 

Well, Salamander, God chose to protect the meaning of His word and has allowed it to come through loud and clear in the modern versions. That is why we have modern versions, Salamander - so that the meaning of God's word can be readily understood by every generation. We don't need to be stuck in time with an English text that is 400 years old and which has antiquated meanings and word usage in some passages.

The rest of your post was merely inflammatory, off-topic rhetoric and I will not bother to respond to that. You really need to try to do better than that, Salamander. Christ was not freely throw around insults and He did not promote a myth - so why do you?

 

" Therefore, if I do not know the meaning of the language, I shall be a foreigner to him who speaks, and he who speaks will be a foreigner to me."

(1 Corinthians 14:11, NKJV)

 

No, I am giving God the Glory He deserves for allowing the Bible in English to be precise and without error in the KJB.

The latter statement you make compared to the following contradict each other:

You allow the same wisdom to have offered many errant translations. None of these translations can or will surpass that which God already has given us in the KJB. No modern type of English will alow this because the poetic and eloquent impact the KJB has in it's voracity to relate to us the Word of God.

Those very ones you "warn" me about to think myself as more wise than they are the very ones who have not, nor will not, come up with a "better" translation.

I know this to be the fatcs at hand: God is the ONLY One who can relate the Word of God so men may understand the mind of God. The more men allow their minds to "workout" the problematic areas of translating the Bible the more astray men go.

If we were to look at just one of our "best" universities that used to stand on "Truth" then we would see how much man's wisdom concerning the things of God have deviated from the Truth and precepts of God's Word by the example of Harvard.

Am I more wise than any of these? In just whose wisdom do you ask or imply?:sleep:

 

Salamander:No, I am giving God the Glory He deserves for allowing the Bible in English to be precise and without error in the KJB.

A guess which you cannot even begin to prove is right. I can replace "KJB" in the above statement with NIV, NASB, NKJB, HCSB, etc. and be just as correct.

I give God the glory for causing His word to have been translated into my language, as well as for the older translations He has kept available.

The latter statement you make compared to the following contradict each other:






You allow the same wisdom to have offered many errant translations. None of these translations can or will surpass that which God already has given us in the KJB. No modern type of English will alow this because the poetic and eloquent impact the KJB has in it's voracity to relate to us the Word of God.

No new car will ever have all the good qualities of the Model-T. But it WILL be better-suited to today's driving conditions.

Those very ones you "warn" me about to think myself as more wise than they are the very ones who have not, nor will not, come up with a "better" translation.

They ARE translations that reflect TODAY'S language. Now, just WHO gave us our current language, if not GOD?

I know this to be the fatcs at hand: God is the ONLY One who can relate the Word of God so men may understand the mind of God. The more men allow their minds to "workout" the problematic areas of translating the Bible the more astray men go.

So God IS the author of confusion?

If we were to look at just one of our "best" universities that used to stand on "Truth" then we would see how much man's wisdom concerning the things of God have deviated from the Truth and precepts of God's Word by the example of Harvard.

Yes...the man who gave us the modern KJVO myth(Dr.Ben Wilkinson) was a college professor(Union College), right?

Am I more wise than any of these?

In religious matters, you most likely are.

In just whose wisdom do you ask or imply?

Those to whom God has given wisdom in His affairs, especially in His word.

So the individual English words cancel out the Greek and the Hebrew?

 

No, satan asked Eve a direct question as to upset Divine order and cause her to see that the fruit of the Tree of Knowledge of good and evil was to make one wise when all the while God's word was protected in the very heart and mind of Adam.. You err, again.

You object to the KHB as it being inspired then you re-inspire men who change words to effect the current monologue of men.

I know what the Bible says as the Lord relates it to me by His Spirit, justr as His Spirit related to us English speaking people what "Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani" means in any language. It's when men alter words and use slang meanings and the vulgar expressions to try and relate what thus saith the Lord that confuses men altogether. That is exactly what the serpent did, he altered the words, then caused Eve to subject herself to what she "saw" verses what God said.

If yopu want to be seduced by man's wisdom that is your perogative, but it will never be mine.

Maybe you should study the passage further before you speak?

To "prevent" carries the emphasis relative to the meaning. Those who were alive and remain could not PREVENT those who had died and were asleep in Jesus from the Rapture becuase the order IS that those who are alive and remain would meet the ones who PRECEDED them as to meet them in the air.

The only way to prevent is to precede in action. Your example holds no water.

So now you are allowed to make inflammatory remarks and you think your opinion over-rides established TRUTH?:laugh:

I suppose you should examine reflection verses revelation?