Individual words of KJV editions

He spoke to them with the voice of God, they didn't understand in any language, though Jesus spoke to them in the way anyone could understand.

You love to keep the Word of God on a man's level of understanding when it is the Spirit that reveals to whom He will the understanding that God would have for all men that would simply believe.

You want to take the Spirit's work from Him and try and make men believe on your level of understanding when you don't have that power of the Spirit.

I suppose the difference would be some of us understand what thus saith the Lord and others just think they do.

 

Then why do you?

 

You and the NKJV tranlsators leave the Spirit out in this passage.

The impact of the words "a barbarian" is more inline with the meaning.

A barabrian is one who is not only foreign but uncivilized; he would be out of order as the last verse in I Cor 14 declares.

Foreigners can be civilized, but it is uncivil to speak in a tongue that one knows the other cannot understand. Just further evidence the KJB is the Word of God and that glossalalia is not of God.:thumbsup:

 

Who need modern versions?

 

Keith M: //That is why we have modern versions,
Salamander - so that the meaning of God's word
can be readily understood by every generation.//

Askjo: //Who need modern versions?//

How prophetic of you, Brother Keith M, to answer
Bro. Askjo's question before he asks it :saint:

That is why we have modern versions,
Askjo - so that the meaning of God's word
can be readily understood by every generation.

 

With all due respect, Sal, your KJVO defenses are growing sillier all the time. Please look up the obsolete definition of barbarian to see it's someone who speaks a language you don't understand, or a foreigner. Also, look up the definition of the Greek barbaros from which 'barbarian' is derived. By YOUR definition, Paul woulda been as uncivilized as the hypothetical foreigner in his writings, as he said HE would be a barbarian to his audience. Your "KJV, right or wrong" stance is making you to appear as a barbarian.

In 1 Cor. 14:11, Paul says that if two people who tried to speak to each other didn't understand one another's languages, they'd be BARBARIANS. I.E. "foreigners" to each other. Given the use of 'barbarian' today, a MV would be incorrect to write 'barbarian' in 1 Cor. 14:11.

Have you been watching too many "Capitol One" commercials?

Here's another case of proper upgrading of an individual word to fit modern English.

 

Everyone who has older versions.

 

Salamander:He spoke to them with the voice of God, they didn't understand in any language, though Jesus spoke to them in the way anyone could understand.

You're still missing the essence. They failed to grasp the meaning of the parable itself because of unbelief, but they understood every individual word He spoke because He spoke in THEIR language.

You love to keep the Word of God on a man's level of understanding when it is the Spirit that reveals to whom He will the understanding that God would have for all men that would simply believe.

Wrong again. The Holy Spirit causes one to understand the overall meaning of a set of words, but the reader must first be able to understand each individual word. The Holy Spirit can cause one to understand any language, of course, but He very rarely does that. If He did that regularly, we'd have no need for any translations at all. However, by the way He does what He does, we must understand the individual WORDS; He then causes us to understand the WORD. If you don't read Japanese, could you open a Japanese-language Bible and even know it is a Bible?

You want to take the Spirit's work from Him and try and make men believe on your level of understanding when you don't have that power of the Spirit.

No, YOU wanna throw everything into the HS's lap and eliminate our doing OUR part in reading God's word in our own language. Again, if He was doing it all, without any spoudazo on our part, we'd need no translations at all.

I suppose the difference would be some of us understand what thus saith the Lord and others just think they do.

Actually, the difference is that we Freedom Readers don't try to LIMIT GOD as to how He may choose to present/provide His own word to us. We try to make use of all He provides for us.

Thus NOT saith the Lord: "I shall limit Myself to presenting just one version of My word in a future language men shall call English."

 

Thou doest cause me to ponder???

 

! Cor. 14:11

Most modern versions: "foreigner"
KJV & Geneva: "barbarian"
Bishop's: "aliaunt"

 

Right! He spoke to them in their language. The language they all spoke each day in their daily lives and affairs. The reason they didn't understand was that they were blind to the concepts He was revealing... not because He used diction and grammar that they didn't use.

That's why you have misapplied that scripture. If a person has difficulty understanding the grammar and diction of the KJV it simply doesn't follow that they aren't "spiritual". Maybe they just don't understand the language whereas they are plenty "spiritual" enough to understand the concepts that are revealed in the Bible with a version that is given in the language they speak daily and understand. Get it?

Right. The Spirit reveals the understanding... but He doesn't miraculously endow people with the ability to speak a form of language they don't know.

Nope. It is you that professes to speak where the Spirit never spoke. He never said that the KJV was the only acceptable version of the Bible... you did. Then you have the audacity to demand that He go along with you and specially endow people with the ability to understand the KJV when they don't... and not because the Spirit is not powerful but because folks like you have used fear and intimidation to prevent these people from having a Bible in the language they use. You are guilty of inhibiting their spiritual growth if you do this.

Sheer pride? Tell me, where did "thus saith the Lord" that the KJV is the only acceptable version? I've seen "thus saith Ruckman, thus saith Riplinger, thus saith Waite, thus saith Hyles, thus saith Cloud, and thus saith Salamander"... but I have yet to see where "thus saith the Lord, I only approve of the KJV and every modern version is a perverse corruption".

The real difference is some of us understand what the Lord said while others presume to speak for Him when dissatisfied with what He actually said.

 

I think the Holy Spirit gets blamed for a lot of trash. Clearly God expects us to use our brains and all the training possible to understand the Bible.

The easy way out is to simply say, I don't believe in theology, I have the Holy Ghost....

Cheers,

Jim

 

Sadly, Jim1999, I think that we often get "training" rather than education. In training our brains are programmed to respond in certain ways to various stimuli. But in education we are provided with principles and knowledge that we can use to reason with.

The educated man finds many questions and (hopefully) a few answers. A "trained" man, however, has many answers but few questions.

Education and reason, however, aren't sufficient to find truth. The revealed word of God and the guidance of His Holy Spirit are necessary. I conclude that partly because of the observation that many times well educated and equally qualified scholars will arrive at opposing conclusions.

Please allow me to provide a few personal examples:

The Holy Ghost teaches me that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God. My education and reason tells me that Jesus was only a good rabbi.

The Holy Ghost made me believe that God created the earth. My education and reason says that it was all a cosmic accident.

The Holy Ghost made me believe that Jesus Christ was born of a virgin. My education and reason says (to quote one of my old professors) "Human beings don't reproduce that way." Incidentally, that professor was an Episcopalian in good standing. He wasn't just some dummy with an opinion!

Of course the three examples above were brought about through the instrument of the Holy Bible, not directly revealed to me. However, the Holy Ghost made me believe that the Holy Bible is the revealed word of God. Of course, my education and reason teaches that the Bible is just another old book of fables......

Thanks for the opportunity to go off!

With best regards, God bless,

A.F.

 

You sound just like those Vulgate onlyists berating and persecuting William Tyndale for translating the bible into English. Yet, if he did not go ahead with his translation anyway, then you would not have the KJV.

You stand against William Tyndale and all early English Bible translators here and sound just like the Catholics that say not to read the Bible for yourself - just go to the priest and let him tell you what to believe.

 

Well, we are past page five and back on the same old merry-go-round, reading the same comments by the same posters that we have read a hundred times before.

Topic closed until it rears its head again in some other thread.