Inherited Sinfulness

Discussion in '2005 Archive' started by Hardsheller, Jun 29, 2005.

  1. Hardsheller

    Hardsheller
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    Would you agree or disagree with the following statements? Can all Arminians and all Calvinists agree on these statements?

    1. "We inherit our basic sinfulness. The universal sinfulness of humanity is evidence that by "nature" (italics mine) we tend toward evil not good."

    2. Christ said that everyone who has sinned is a "slave of sin." Only divine power can emancipate us from this slavery.
     
  2. StefanM

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    I agree.
     
  3. 4His_glory

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  4. Wes Outwest

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    1. I Disagree, Sinfulness is a relative term that generally speaks of a measure of the amount of sin one has, and not the concept that man inherited the propensity toward sin.

    If the question is do I agree that man inherited the propensity to sin, the Yes I agree! One person may sin greatly because he acts upon the propensity to sin greatly, while another sins slightly because he acts upon the propensity to sin, slightly! ALL HAVE SINNED, but some to much less degree than others.

    2a. I agree, Jesus told us that!

    2b. Jesus also told ALL who were caught "red handed", and who were brought before him for the purpose of entrapping him, "go and sin no more". He did not tell them you can only stop sinning by some divine power that emancipates them from slavery. The woman caught in adultery was not even judged by Jesus, he asked her, "woman, where are your accusers?", then said, neither do I accuse you!

    Kind of blows holes in your hellacious sin unto death theory don't it!
     
  5. Sularis

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    1. Inherited Sin nature/Corruption yes
    Inherited Sin NO

    2 - No problem
     
  6. StefanM

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    More or less, this basically represents my position.

    From the Abstract of Principles (SBTS)

    The Fall of Man

    "God originally created Man in His own image, and free from sin; but, through the temptation of Satan, he transgressed the command of God, and fell from his original holiness and righteousness; whereby his posterity inherit a nature corrupt and wholly opposed to God and His law, are under condemnation, and as soon as they are capable of moral action, become actual transgressors."
     
  7. BobRyan

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    Agreed.
     
  8. johnp.

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    Hello Hardsheller.
    We inherit our basic sinfulness. (Original sin). The evidence of our sinfulness must come from the bible not our eyes. People can be seen to be doing good to others and be seemingly self-sacrificing.
    I agree.
    No. We could not let ourselves agree on the time of day. :cool:

    I think we become actual transgressors at the moment of conception because we do not love the Lord our God with our whole being.

    john.
     
  9. inpeace

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    Are we sinners because we sin? Or do we sin because we are sinners?
     
  10. johnp.

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    we sin because we are sinners
    conceived dead

    dead because our spirit is seperated from God's Spirit.

    john.
     
  11. Bob Krajcik

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  12. Bob Krajcik

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    Yes, yes, regarding to two original questions.

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Bob Krajcik

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    Perhaps, if UTC were used, there could be agreement, but then probably only if one clock were available. [​IMG]
     
  14. StefanM

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    I say we sin because we inherit a sinful nature. I do not believe anyone sins until one is capable of a a true choice to sin. Now, every individual will undoubtedly choose to sin, as it is his/her nature.

    So I would say this:

    We are sinners because we sin, but we sin because it is our nature to do so.
     
  15. Bob Krajcik

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  16. johnp.

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    Hello StefanM.
    The wages of sin is death and babies die. They must be considered guilty and free choice in the matter is negated by, LK 11:44 "Woe to you, because you are like unmarked graves, which men walk over without knowing it." Which harkens back to the law that if a person walked on an unmarked grave he incurred guilt which needed a sacrifice to cover over.
    How does one know one has walked on unmarked graves? It is a sin to walk on unmarked graves. :cool: No true choice to sin.
    PS 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
    Sinful at conception. There is an age of accountability, conception.
    Romans 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God...
    We are sin and the symptoms of our nature appear just as soon as they can.
    PS 51:5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.

    john.
     
  17. StefanM

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    Ps. 51:5--I see as literary hyperbole.

    "All have sinned" --what about Jesus?

    Wages of sin is death.--Yes, this is true. Even so, I see physical death as a result of being excluded from the tree of life rather than as a punishment for one's sins, for Christians (whose sins are completely atoned for) would otherwise not inherit physical death.
     
  18. johnp.

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    Hello StefanM.

    My own argument to prove that all does not mean everyone ever born. Of course not Jesus but don't forget He is writting this to us about us and we should not think He includes Himself.
    And why are we excluded from the Tree of Life if that is not being punished? Romans 8:10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

    The body is dead because of sin and death is the wages of sin.

    john.
     
  19. StefanM

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    The exclusion from the Tree of life is a negative result of being descended of Adam, not direct punishment for every individual's sin.
     
  20. Hardsheller

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    So you think David was exaggerating in Ps 51:5?

    Is he not under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit as he writes this?
     

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