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Inspiration vs Preservation

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by MISSIONARY, Jan 11, 2006.

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  1. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
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    Not necessarily true in terms of absolute perfection.

    By this logic we could say that if God saved us perfectly from the penalty of sin in this life, He can and would make us perfectly sinless in thsi life after this perfect salvation from sin.


    HankD
     
    #41 HankD, Jan 13, 2006
  2. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    I don't have the book with me but Carson points out in his book that the KKV also uses some dynamic equivalence.
     
    #42 gb93433, Jan 13, 2006
  3. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

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    Is Carson KJVO?
     
    #43 Askjo, Jan 13, 2006
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Is Carson KJVO? </font>[/QUOTE]No. He is a professor at TEDS. The bok is The King James Version Debate: A Plea for Realism
     
    #44 gb93433, Jan 13, 2006
  5. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

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    Or just click on e-sword on my desktop!!!
     
    #45 tinytim, Jan 13, 2006
  6. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
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    Please check the facts for yourself. In his history of the English Bible entitled THE BIBLE IN ENGLISH, David Daniell wrote: "In the first 250 years of KJV's life, there were many errors. In 1884 Dr. F. H. A. Scrivener listed about fifteen hundred" (p. 460).

    Scivener may not consider all the changes he listed "errors," but he definitely mentioned over 400 in his book. Some have perhaps only counted the number of changes in one appendix in Scrivener's book. Scrivener also mentions other changes in the text of his book which are not listed in the appendix. For example, he mentioned the rendering "you" in the 1611 being changed to "ye" many times in 1762/1769 (p. 104).

    I have compared the 1611 KJV edition with the present Oxford KJV edition in the Scofield Reference Bible, and I have a list of changes that numbers over 1500.
     
    #46 Logos1560, Jan 14, 2006
  7. MISSIONARY

    MISSIONARY New Member

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    To C4K, Psalms 12, speaks about God's Word in His preserved Word, in the "new" translations the Word was not just updated for better language understanding but CHANGED OR corrupted to read differently than the preserved Word.

    If I was the enemy, I would attack the Word and confuse the people and take away references such as Psalm 12, to further confuse the people about the Word.

    Just one note, many of the new tranlations have indeed updated the language, I can go along with that to a point. But in all the new translations they not only updated the language but dropped verses, changed verses etc, Psalm 12 being an example.
     
    #47 MISSIONARY, Jan 14, 2006
  8. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    All of the newer versions have Psalm 12v6-7 and even the translators of the KJV knew that "people" could be used there.
     
    #48 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 14, 2006
  9. MISSIONARY

    MISSIONARY New Member

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    To Chopped Liver (LOL)

    Saying all the versions add up to the true word of God is without merit.

    Many of these versions do not agree with each other. One will have a verse deleted where the other will allow it.

    So again all these versions are not correct, the enemy has placed counterfeit versions to discredit the real Word of God.

    Jesus said, "I am the truth"

    There is a Bible that is "the truth" the others may contain the Word of God but they are not "The Word of God"

    Think on these things !
     
    #49 MISSIONARY, Jan 14, 2006
  10. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    You have no Bible support to claim any one version's superiority over another.

    No one has any Bible support to refute your claim.

    That is why this subject always comes to an impasse and is going to be closed on the next page.
     
    #50 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 14, 2006
  11. MISSIONARY

    MISSIONARY New Member

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    C4K
    Coulda, woulda, shoulda, doesn't mean that was the way that it was used.

    Ever heard of literal tranlation. In other words we shouldn't seek to spiritualize the Word of God.

    Such as the verse says this but really means this, unless it is stated that it is a parable or such, which this verse is not.
     
    #51 MISSIONARY, Jan 14, 2006
  12. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    In this verse it is clear that GOd may be talking about preserving His word or His people. Both are equally true.

    I am a firm believer in literal translation and a staunch defender of the KJV/Byzantine text body, but this is not a proof text for single version onlyism.

    Even IF it was man would have to determine in his own flawed wisdom which version it was talking about since all version contain the verse.
     
    #52 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 14, 2006
  13. MISSIONARY

    MISSIONARY New Member

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    God preserved His Word through true believers down through the ages, they all used Bibles that came from one source, Textus Receptus, until some so-called older manuscripts that had long ago been disgarded by true believers.

    From these [inflammatory word snipped] manuscripts come all the new versions.

    Not only that is a problem, but the method of textual criticism is errant in these new versions.

    Men decide by erroneous methods what will be included in the new versions and what will not.
    Pretty much leaving God out of the picture.

    The true believes always copied the Bible with the idea that God was in control and would presereve His Word.

    The new versions are weak, in that take away from the diety of Christ.

    Just one small example, Where the true Word will say Jesus Christ, identifying who the Christ is, the newer versions will simply say Christ.

    Leaves the door open for any religion to say their "man"is Christ.

    Sounds like a plan to me to unite all religions one day. ONE WORLD RELIGION

    I will stick to THE WORD, not some watered-down book that contains the Word but is not the Word.

    Think on these things ! !

    [ January 14, 2006, 08:43 AM: Message edited by: C4K ]
     
    #53 MISSIONARY, Jan 14, 2006
  14. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Most of your post is faulty and full of generalisations at best.


    However, this one:


    I don't think you would have any arguement at all on this statement - AMEN!
     
    #54 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 14, 2006
  15. MISSIONARY

    MISSIONARY New Member

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    I think we all know which Bible sticks with the textus receptus. I work in English and Spanish.
    Both my Bibles come from Textus Receptus.

    Beware of all the changes made in the new versions, all of them weaken the TRUE WORD.

    Think on these things ! !
     
    #55 MISSIONARY, Jan 14, 2006
  16. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K) Well-Known Member

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    Again, a hasty generalisation yet substantiated.
     
    #56 NaasPreacher (C4K), Jan 14, 2006
  17. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Actually the KJV of 1611 does not speak of God's word in Psalm 12:6-7. A marginal note in the original AV of 1611 clearly states that the "them" refers to the "poor and needy" in verse 5, not the "words" in verse 6. Every person able to read any Hebrew at all knows that.
    Well, it seems to me you have attacked the word of God and tried to make it say something God says it doesn't say and the KJV translators say it doesn't say.
    Actually, that is not true. The NKJV, KJ2000, LITV, etc., do not drop verses, change verses, etc.
     
    #57 TCassidy, Jan 14, 2006
  18. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I do. "Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God." "And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus."

    Any bible that is "able to make thee wise unto salvation" is the "word of God" and "holy scripture" according to the bible. [​IMG]
     
    #58 TCassidy, Jan 14, 2006
  19. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    I agree. You shouldn't spiritualize what the word of God says. God says that in Psalm 12:6-7 the "them" refers to the "poor and needy" in verse 5 but you spiritualize that away and try to claim it refers to the "words."

    You shouldn't contradict the word of God.
     
    #59 TCassidy, Jan 14, 2006
  20. TCassidy

    TCassidy Late-Administator Emeritus
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    Certainly not the KJV. The KJV departs from the TR in over 200 places.
    If you can read Spanish you know that the RV (either 1909 or 1960) is based, originally, on the Latin Vulgate. This is very clear by reading Mark 1:2 in the RV, "Como está escrito en Isaías el profeta: He aquí yo envío á mi mensajero delante de tu faz, Que apareje tu camino delante de ti." As anyone who can read Spanish knows the RV follows the LV and NIV in this verse, not the TR or KJV.

    Also look at 1 Peter 2:2 in the KJV and TR, which reads, "As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:" but the RV and NIV read, "Desead, como niños recién nacidos, la leche espiritual, sin engaño, para que por ella crezcáis en salud:" Again, as anyone who can read Spanish knows the RV follows the LV and NIV in this verse too, not the TR or KJV.
     
    #60 TCassidy, Jan 14, 2006
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