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Interesting find on the Internet...

Discussion in 'Free-For-All Archives' started by CatholicConvert, Aug 22, 2003.

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  1. CatholicConvert

    CatholicConvert New Member

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    On Monday, 25 July, 1583 (N.S.), the village of Cuncolim in the district of Salcete, territory of Goa, India, was the scene of the martyrdom of five religious of the Society of Jesus: Fathers Rudolph Acquaviva, Alphonsus Pacheco, Peter Berno, and Anthony Francis, also Francis Aranha, lay brother.

    Rudolph Acquaviva was born 2 October, 1550, at Atri in the Kingdom of Naples. He was the fifth child of the Duke of Atri, and nephew of Claudius Acquaviva, the fifth General of the Society of Jesus, while on his mother's side he was a cousin of St. Aloysius Gonzaga. Admitted into the Society of Jesus 2 April, 1568, he landed in Goa 13 September, 1578. Shortly after his arrival he was selected for a very important mission to the court of the Great Mogul Akbar, who had sent an embassy to Goa with a request that two learned missionaries might be sent to Fatehpir-Sikri, his favourite residence near Agra. After spending three years at the Mogul court, he returned to Goa, much to the regret of the whole Court and especially of the emperor. On his return to Goa, he was appointed superior of the Salcete mission, which post he held until his martyrdom.

    Alphonsus Pacheco was born about 1551, of a noble family of New Castile, and entered the Society on 8 September, 1567. In September, 1574, he arrived in Goa, where he so distinguished himself by his rare prudence and virtue that in 1578 he was sent to Europe on important business. Returning to India in 1581, he was made rector of Rachol. He accompanied two punitive expeditions of the Portuguese to the village of Cuncolim, and was instrumental in destroying the pagodas there.

    Peter Berno was born of humble parents in 1550 at Ascona, a Swiss village at the foot of the Alps. After being ordained priest in Rome, he entered the Society of Jesus in 1577, arrived in Goa in 1579, and was soon appointed to Salcete. He accompanied the expeditions to Cuncolim, and assisted in destroying the pagan temples, destroyed an ant-hill which was deemed very sacred, and killed a cow which was also an object of pagan worship. He used to say constantly that no fruit would be gathered from Cuncolim and the hamlets around it till they were bathed in blood shed for the Faith. His superiors declared that he had converted more pagans than all the other fathers put together.

    Anthony Francis, born in 1553, was a poor student of Coimbra in Portugal. He joined the Society in 1571, accompanied Father Pacheco to India in 1581, and was shortly afterwards ordained priest in Goa. It is said that whenever he said Mass, he prayed, at the Elevation, for the grace of martyrdom; and that on the day before his death, when he was saying Mass at the church of Orlim, a miracle prefigured the granting of this prayer.

    Brother Francis Aranha was born of a wealthy and noble family of Braga in Portugal, about 1551, and went to India with his uncle, the first Archbishop of Goa, Dom Gaspar. There he joined the Society of Jesus, 1 November, 1571. Being a skilled draughtsman and architect, he built several fine chapels in Goa.

    These five religious met in the church of Orlim on the 15 of July, 1583, and thence proceeded to Cuncolim, accompanied by some Christians, with the object of erecting a cross and selecting ground for building a church. Seeing an opportunity of doing away with these enemies of their pagodas, the pagan villagers, after holding a council, advanced in large numbers, armed with swords, lances, and other weapons, towards the spot where the Christians were. Gonçalo Rodrigues one of the party, levelled his gun, but Father Pacheco stopped hirn, saying: "Come, come, Senhor Gonçalo, we are not here to fight." Then, speaking to the crowd, he said in Konkani, their native language, "Do not be afraid". The Pagans then fell upon them; Father Rudolph received five cuts from a scimitar and a spear and died praying God to forgive them, and pronouncing the Holy Name. Father Berno was next horribly mutilated, and Father Pacheco, wounded with a spear, fell on his knees extending his arms in the form of a cross, and praying God to forgive his murderers and send other missionaries to them. Father Anthony Francis was pierced with arrows, and his head was split open with a sword. Brother Aranha, wounded at the outset by a Scimitar and a lance, fell down a deep declivity into the thick crop of a rice-field, where he lay until he was discovered. He was then carried to the idol, to which he was bidden to bow his head. Upon his refusal to do this, he was tied to a tree and, like St. Sebastian was shot to death with arrows. The spot where this tree stood is marked with an octagonal monument surmounted by a cross, which was repaired by the Patriarch of Goa in 1885.

    The bodies of the five martyrs were thrown into a well, water of which was afterwards sought by people from all parts of Goa for its miraculous healing. The bodies themselves, when found, after two and a half days, allowed no signs of decomposition. They were solemnly buried in the church of Our Lady of the Snows at Rachol, and remained there until 1597, when they were removed to the college of St. Paul in Goa, and in 1862 to the cathedral of Old Goa. Some of these relics have been sent to Europe at various times. All the bones of the entire right arm of Blessed Rudolph were taken to Rome in 1600, and his left arm was sent from Goa as a present to the Jesuit college at Naples. In accordance with the request of the Pacheco family, an arm and leg of Blessed Alphonsus were sent to Europe in 1609. The process of canonization began in 1600, but it was only in 1741 that Benedict XIV declared the martyrdom proved. On the 16th of April, 1893, the solemn beatification of the five martyrs was celebrated at St. Peter's in Rome. It was celebrated in Goa in 1894, and the feast has ever since then been kept with great solemnity at Cuncolim, even by the descendants of the murderers. The Calendar of the Archdiocese of Goa has fixed 26 July as their feast day.

    Along with the five religious were also killed Gonçalo Rodrigues, a Portuguese, and fourteen native Christians. Of the latter, one was Dominic, a boy of Cuncolim, who was a student at Rachol, and had accompanied the fathers on their expeditions to Cuncolim and pointed out to them the pagan temples. His own heathen uncle dispatched him. Alphonsus, an altar-boy of Father Pacheco had followed him closely, carrying his breviary, which he would not part with. The pagans therefore cut off his hands and cut through his knee-joints to prevent his escape. In this condition he lived till the next day, when he was found and killed. This boy, a native of either Margao or Verna, was buried in the church of the Holy Ghost at Margao. Francis Rodrigues, who was also murdered, used to say, when he was reproached by the fathers for slight faults, that he hoped to atone for them by shedding his blood as a martyr. Paul da Costa, another of those who died at the hands of the pagans, was an inhabitant of Rachol, and had been distinguished by his desire of dying for the Faith.

    WHAT??!!?? :eek: :eek: :eek:

    Why, I thought that papists co-operated with the pagans, helped them raise up pagan temples, worshipped with them and refused to tell them of Jesus.

    Must be a mistake here somewhere!! :eek: :eek:

    Imagine that, papists tearing down sacred pagan images, destroying pagodas, and when martyred, breathing out forgiveness to their killers as did their Lord.

    My my my....what will we discover next!!
     
    #1 CatholicConvert, Aug 22, 2003
  2. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    The order they belonged to, the Society of Jesus, is also called the Jesuits.

    God Bless
     
    #2 Kathryn, Aug 22, 2003
  3. John Gilmore

    John Gilmore New Member

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    Imagine that, papists tearing down sacred pagan images, destroying pagodas, and when martyred, breathing out forgiveness to their killers as did their Lord.


    What a contrast! Now the Vatican welcomes the same idols that the martyrs destroyed onto church property.
     
    #3 John Gilmore, Aug 22, 2003
  4. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    AS RC historians point out - the image to Zeus in Rome - is now venerated as "Peter" with worshipful prayers, kisses, candles, incense -- you know - same-ole - same-ole.

    The argument about Paganism that RC HISTORIANS have repeatedly made is NOT that the RCC included ALL the pagan practices in the entire world - but rather the ROMAN pagan idols and images, practices and worship. Let's "stay focused" here.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #4 BobRyan, Aug 23, 2003
  5. Taufgesinnter

    Taufgesinnter New Member

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    I guess Vatican II brought about all kinds of changes...
     
    #5 Taufgesinnter, Aug 23, 2003
  6. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Seems anti-Catholics don’t agree with one another. Interesting story about the female pelican on the KJV 1611. [​IMG]

    God Bless
     
    #6 Kathryn, Aug 23, 2003
  7. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Good point about those female pelicans.

    That explains why we see all those statues to the femail pelican in all the churches - and we pray to them with incense and candles burning bright.

    Never thought about it before. I guess this has been going on for a lot longer than since the 6th century when Zeus was turned into Peter - huh?

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #7 BobRyan, Aug 24, 2003
  8. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    duplicate
     
    #8 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  9. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Bob:

    Since Catholics don't pray to or worship statues or images, your remarks don't mean much more than anti-Catholic rhetoric. I am sure the Protestants here do not worship or pray to the Pelican on the title page of the KJV 1611. One could think that out of ignorance however I suppose.

    The female pelican does seem an odd pagan touch to the KJV 1611. From the scanned pictures I have seen there seems to be a lot of little critters on the title pages. I assume they are symbols that have a Christian meaning, and no one is praying to the images.

    God Bless

    [ August 24, 2003, 01:13 AM: Message edited by: Kathryn ]
     
    #9 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  10. Singer

    Singer New Member

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    What a contrast! Now the Vatican welcomes the same idols that the martyrs destroyed onto church property.

    Lol, John, maybe that's how they learned to do their own killing later.
     
    #10 Singer, Aug 24, 2003
  11. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Pagans say the same thing about their statues. USING your logic they would ALSO conclude they are NOT worshiping the idol that they pray before - RATHER they argue that they pray to the PERSON - the diety, the divine being - it "represents".

    Your claim is a distinction without a difference.

    Indeed we WOULD think that of Protestants IF (like the RCC) they setup the Pelican as an image - they lit candles before it, burned incense before it and prayed to the being it represents - the Pelican in the cosmos.

    For when they Pray TO Peter - it is NOT the case of the statue of Peter "representing Jesus" - they REALL are praying to Peter.


    Most non-Catholics do not view the King James English as "holy English" spoken by God.

    We use - modern translations.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #11 BobRyan, Aug 24, 2003
  12. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    #12 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  13. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Bob: Catholic don't pray to statues or images. We do ask saints in heaven to pray for us. We believe in the Communion of saints. This is not paganism. To say we pray to statues is not true and you know better.

    The female pelican in the KJV 1611 seems to have upset you, and you seem to want to distance yourself from it, by saying more modern translations would be used now. As the Professor from anti-Catholic Bob Jones says, the pagan element is turned around and used to present a Christian truth. It's obvious that all anti-Catholics don't believe in your position.

    God Bless
     
    #13 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  14. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    You pray directly TO those that the statue "represents" just as non-Christian groups do with their images. And you do it with the same setup of candles, incense etc.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #14 BobRyan, Aug 24, 2003
  15. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Bob:
    How I pray, may look that way to an anti-Catholic, but that doesn't make it true. I worship God alone.

    God Bless
     
    #15 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  16. Carson Weber

    Carson Weber <img src="http://www.boerne.com/temp/bb_pic2.jpg">

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    Hi Bob,

    I know that this may come as a revelation of severe disappointment for you.. but I just can't leave you in the dark; it's too much to bear, and when I see that you haven't realized this, I pity you. Okay, sit down - I don't think you can take this standing up..

    You, Bob, are a Protestant.

    There, I said it. I know, I know.. it'll take some time to sink in. Just relax & don't fret it. Everything's going to be okay, I promise.

    </font>
    • Martin Luther (b. 1483, d. 1546) on October 13th, 1517 affixed to the Wittenburg castle church door his 95 Theses</font>
    • Ulrich Zwingli started the Protestant Reformation in Switzerland.</font>
    • In 1525, some of Zwingli's associates separated from him and preached rebaptism and communism. Thus, arose the Anabaptists.</font>
    • The Anabaptist preacher William Miller (1782–1849) predicted the 2nd Coming was imminent.</font>
    • Miller's followers were called the "seventh-month movement" who claimed Jesus would return on Oct. 22nd, 1844 in the 7th month of the Jewish calendar.</font>
    • Christ's 2nd Coming didn't happen, and the movement broke up into factions.</font>
    • Miller had claimed Christ would return in 1843-1844 to cleanse "the sanctuary", which he interpreted as the Earth.</font>
    • The day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple.</font>
    • Some Millerites were influenced by Joseph Bates' promulgation of the Jewish Sabbath instead of Christian Sunday worship.</font>
    • With Edson and Bates, Ellen Gould White formed the 7th Day Adventist demonination (1860)</font>
    • Sometime in the late 20th century, BobRyan - an avid poster on BaptistBoard.com - became a staunch adherent of Ellen Gould White's Protestant denomination.</font>
     
    #16 Carson Weber, Aug 24, 2003
  17. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #17 BobRyan, Aug 24, 2003
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Well-Known Member

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    Hey - Carson told the truth again!!

    While my church is not the Lutheran church - it does hold to the key - essential - crucial protestant principles that lead scholars and leaders in the RCC to call for reform - to protest and eventually when cast out - to form a reformed Christian faith returning to the NT faith of the Bible authors.

    so --- thanks!


    Carson is - right AGAIN!!

    Carson is sorta right!!

    The Millerites in the US constituted a group of about 50,000. The Adventist formed a small group of 50 (that would be 5 0) that kept Sunday (as did all the Millerites) and was formed by a handful within that group (of which Ellen Harmon) was one. (She later married to become Ellen White).

    The Adventists did not discover the Sabbath until a Seventh-day Baptist lady by the name of Rachael Oaks visisted an Adventist congregation in New England a few years after the great dissappointment of 1844.

    However - you are still correct about that group holding to the same spirit and doctrinal distinctives (like righteousness by faith and the principle that all faith and practice is tested and based - sola scriptura).

    I am actually very pleased to see so much truth in your post.

    I applaud you.

    In Christ,

    Bob
     
    #18 BobRyan, Aug 24, 2003
  19. Kathryn

    Kathryn New Member

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    Bob:

    Pagans may use counting beads to pray, but they don't use their beads to meditate on the life and death of Jesus Christ as Catholics do. They don't pray in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as Catholics do. Like the Professor at Bob Jones University said, the original pagan element can be turned around and used for a Christian truth, much like the female pelican on the KJV Bible. It seems not all anti-Catholics agree with you.

    God Bless
     
    #19 Kathryn, Aug 24, 2003
  20. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    So are you saying in effect that you are praying to the dead?
     
    #20 gb93433, Aug 24, 2003
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