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Discussion in '2006 Archive' started by Jack Matthews, Jul 18, 2006.
My reaction: Wow!
My Reaction: Idiot!:thumbs:
He makes some good points.
Pat Buchanan hates Jews
From the Internet:
I used to like him and what he had to say until some time ago when I discovered he hates Jews.
Does he? How do you know? It's not the sort of thing most national-level politicians would let slip.
I agree with you both, Daisy and LE. Buchanan makes some good points, though my instinct is support for Israel's attack. The state of Israel is under siege by Islamfascists and I'm glad to see them striking back. I also agree with LE, though, about Buchanan's statements. I too was a fan years ago, before he became more archisolationist, got his autograph in a couple of his books several years ago when I met him while he was campaigning for Bush 41 in '92, but I was also influenced by a big article that William F. Buckley, Jr. ran in National Review about Buchanan's anti-Semitism.
LE, I'm curious about the line about SS troops being victims and wonder about its authenticity. I know Reagan said that about the German Wehrmacht troops but can't imagine him saying that about the SS.
Daisy, how does he know this was an Israeli pre-planned attack? Is he privvy to Israeli intelligence? His anti-Jewish bias shines through the article and his past comments certainly don't show any love lost for Jews or Israel, especially when he called the Nazis "victims."
I googled and this came up. Maybe I'll check it out later when I get time.
Sorry, I didn't read your quoted section before - I just skipped down to your words. D'oh!
He's a very unattractive person to agree with, but he does have some good points:
Lebanon has a very young government, about a year old. It's a bit weak, fragile even. It does not control Hezbollah. Only 60% of its citizens are Moslems - a good number are Christian.
Pat's biggest error is calling the Pope a Christian.
The problem is that Hezbollah and Hamas are right in the middle of them all. Why? Because they know that any attack on them will result in condemnation.
Hamas and Hezbollah dont get to get a free ride because they are hiding among innocent people. From amongst these people they fire off their missles. Isreal has given measered response after measured response. Now they are going to destroy Hezbollah and Hamas. The blame is not on Israel but on the terrorists for what they are doing.
The condemnation and outrage should be on them and them alone. If the UN really had a concern for both what is right and peace they would sent in troops to weed out these two terrorist groups and bring this whole thing to an end. If that is what Lebenon really wants. If not then stand by for the obvious.
Monday, July 17, 2006
JERUSALEM — A brief history of the Lebanese-Israeli conflict:
Because Israel and Lebanon have never signed a peace accord, the countries remain officially in a state of war that has existed since 1948 when Lebanon joined other Arab nations against the newly formed Jewish state.
The two countries have been bound by an armistice signed in 1949, which regulates the presence of military forces in southern Lebanon.
With a large Christian minority in an overwhelmingly Muslim region, mercantile and Westernized, Lebanon was considered the least hostile Arab neighbor to Israel — and the weakest. The rare skirmishes that occurred were mostly symbolic.
That began to change as Palestinian guerrillas became active. In 1968, Israeli commandos landed at Beirut airport and blew up 13 Lebanese airliners in retaliation for Arab militants firing on an Israeli airliner in Athens, Greece.
Under pressure from staunch anti-Israeli Arab regimes in 1969, Lebanon signed an agreement that effectively gave away a southern region for Palestinian guerrillas to use as a springboard to infiltrate Israel or launch cross-border attacks.
Israel retaliated regularly as Palestinian guerrillas fired on northern Israel, and Israeli forces invaded southern Lebanon in 1978. A U.N. peacekeeping force deployed and the Israelis pulled out after installing a local Lebanese militia in a border buffer zone, but the attacks continued.
Israel invaded again on a wider scale in 1982 to destroy Yasser Arafat's Palestinian guerrilla movement, which had established itself as a force within Lebanon during the country's civil war that began in 1975. The bulk of Palestinian guerrillas were evacuated from Lebanon, but a new Lebanese guerrilla force, Hezbollah, emerged with the aid of Iran and drawn from the Shiite Muslim community that inhabits southern and eastern Lebanon.
U.S.-sponsored negotiations produced a Lebanon-Israel agreement but that deal died as Lebanon collapsed in another round of civil war.
After a destructive and costly military campaign that lasted for three years, Israeli forces withdrew from most of Lebanon but retained a self-proclaimed "security zone" just north of its own border.
Fighting inside Lebanon would escalate periodically, including a 1993 Israeli bombing offensive and the 17-day "Grapes of Wrath" military campaign in 1996 that left about 150 Lebanese civilians dead. At that time, Israel was reacting against guerrilla attacks by Hezbollah against Israeli soldiers inside the occupied zone and against Katyusha rockets being fired by Hezbollah into Israel proper.
Israel left that zone in 2000, but warned that it would return if its security to the north was compromised.
Hezbollah trumpeted Israel's withdrawal as a great victory but claimed that Israel continued to occupy illegally a small, empty parcel near Syria called the Chebaa Farms.
Diplomats mostly see that claim as a convenient excuse to justify attacks against Israel. Nevertheless, the Israeli-Lebanese frontier had remained largely quiet for the past six years with occasional outbursts — until a cross-border raid July 12 resulted in the capture of two Israeli soldiers and the killing of eight others, sparking the current warfare
No, that's fine, LE, I'll Google it. Thanks for the info.
Pat Buchanan sez:
This is a bald-faced lie. Lebanon, rather than having a pro-American government,as Mr. B contends, has an elected parliament in which 23 members belong to Hezbollah, listed as a Terrorist Group by the US State Department. Hezbollah is a proxy of Iran.
It isn't a lie in that the Bush administration does indeed consider Lebanon as a "shining example" of his democracy crusade, hence, Condi Rice was sent there to pay homage. Whether or not the majority of the Lebanese government is "pro-American" may be questionable, and like any other Islamic dominated government in the region, there are the terrorist and anti-American elements. Pat is right about one thing. This has most definitely derailed his democracy crusade in the Middle East, and has completely undone the recent peace plan that Condi carried over there just a short time ago. This may be a record for the collapse of a peace settlement negotiated by an American president, yet another dubious distinction to add to the lengthy and growing list of blunders and bloopers committed by an administration that showed so much promise at the beginning.
It is not a lie that the PM of Lebanon was told 3 months ago that the USA supported Lebanon . . .
Depends . . . if you re-write history then it can say anything you want it to say. As for some SS troops being victims:
The SS was made up of troops from many different countries. Basically, the Germans decided that the pan-germanic Reich should be protected by people from the conquered peoples.
There were German divisions; Russian; French; and many other ethnic divisions. Most multi national divisions were comprised of different country groups. Most notable would be units like the Indian brigage, the English Britisches Freikorps and the George Washington Brigade (pretty small - I believe these were the infamous germans that infiltrated US units before the battle of the Bulge).
Some were victims (forced conscripts), most were not victims.
In fact, the SS soldiers buried at Bitburg were seventeen to nineteen years old, and likely draftees. Reagan can be excused for calling them victims, perhaps, but it was stupendously stupid to equate them to the Jewish victims of the Holocaust.
And yes, he did say it.
"I think that there's nothing wrong with visiting that cemetery where those young men are victims of Nazism also, even though they were fighting in the German uniform, drafted into service to carry out the hateful wishes of the Nazis. They were victims, just as surely as the victims in the concentration camps."
I might add about PB: If 11,000 missiles were at our southern border pointed at the USA right now and if our soldiers were killed on our side of the border and two others taken hostage and then if Mexico started firing off missles and hitting our cities - all unprovoked - Mr. B would be screaming from the top of his lungs right now. But if it's Israel, none of that matters to him, it seems. His hypocrisy is nauseating.
Thanks very much, Galatian (and LE). Yes, it was an extremely bad comparison.
I remain a huge fan of RR, but he certainly should not have said that.
It is the hypocrisy and stupidity of isolationism.