Interpreting Scripture

Discussion in 'All Other Discussions' started by Crabtownboy, Jan 19, 2012.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,641
    Likes Received:
    158
    I was talking with a pastor about scripture, more specifically Revelation. The pastor said the without a deep knowledge of the Old Testament Revelation cannot be understood properly. Then this pastor went on to say that is true of other books in the NT. For instance Hebrews cannot be properly understood without a good knowledge of the writing about the Old Testament prophets. I realized that means I must often interpret scripture incorrectly.

    I though about this and I believe it makes a lot of sense. Then last night as I was reading Charles Dickens Great Expectations I found the following sentence:

    I realized that many folk today probably do not understand what long chalk scores meant. Thus a person reading this book and seeing that sentence would not know what was meant.

    This sentence could have been used in American fiction from that same era, but not today.

    I am curious, does anyone on the BB know the meaning of this?

    And, how do you feel about having to have a deep knowledge of the OT to interpret the NT accurately? {I realize that being knowledgeable in Hebrew and Greek would help tremendously also.}

    The only reason I know what it means is from a folklore class I took years ago.
     
    #1 Crabtownboy, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2012
  2. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    If you are English, there is no problem understanding what a "long chalk" means.

    Commonly used in the game of darts....."not by a long chance"

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  3. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,641
    Likes Received:
    158
    Interesting Jim. I am not sure if that is correct in Dickens time or not. But it had a very different meaning, at least in the US.

    Is that term, "long chalk" still used in connections with darts?
     
  4. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    "And, how do you feel about having to have a deep knowledge of the OT to interpret the NT accurately?"

    Luke 24:27
    And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he (Jesus) expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning Himself.

    Acts 28:23
    And when they had appointed him a day, there came many to him into his lodging; to whom he expounded and testified the kingdom of God, persuading them concerning Jesus, both out of the law of Moses, and out of the prophets, from morning till evening.


    Luke 16:16
    The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

    Matthew 17:3-5
    And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him. Then answered Peter, and said unto Jesus, Lord, it is good for us to be here: if thou wilt, let us make here three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

    Mark 9:5-8
    And there appeared unto them Elias with Moses: and they were talking with Jesus. And Peter answered and said to Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias. For he wist not what to say; for they were sore afraid. And there was a cloud that overshadowed them: and a voice came out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him. And suddenly, when they had looked round about, they saw no man any more, save Jesus only with themselves.

    Luke 9:33-35
    And it came to pass, as they departed from him, Peter said unto Jesus, Master, it is good for us to be here: and let us make three tabernacles; one for thee, and one for Moses, and one for Elias: not knowing what he said. While he thus spake, there came a cloud, and overshadowed them: and they feared as they entered into the cloud. And there came a voice out of the cloud, saying, This is my beloved Son: hear him.

    Luke 24:44
    And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
     
  5. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,256
    Likes Received:
    4
    If you don't know the old testament, you might mistake Christ stopping a lynching with Christ stopping the death penalty.

    You would have no idea of the significance of the temple curtain being torn.

    Your faith would be strengthened realizing prophecy that came true when Christ was crucified.

    I'm quite puzzled why you would have never considered this.
     
  6. Jim1999

    Jim1999
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/Jim1999.jpg>

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2002
    Messages:
    15,460
    Likes Received:
    0
    The term is still used in darts and in England in general. Same as in Dickens,,,,"Not in a long shot..."

    Cheers,

    Jim
     
  7. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,641
    Likes Received:
    158
    Jim, I was thinking more about the chalk and why it was by the door. I expect, but do not know for sure, that it was a slate board with chalk on it.

    In colonial days here roadhouses kept slate boards on the wall to keep track of who owed them and how much. They extended credit to the teamsters and others who frequented the establishments. A person's name was written on the board. Below the name a "P" and a "Q" was written. The "P" stood for pints and the "Q" was for quarts. The amount owed was kept by chalk marks. So a person who owed for three pints would have three "III"under the "P". The same for quarts.

    That is where our expression, "Mind your P's and Q's" comes from. I believe that is what Dickens was referring to as the scene where the sentence in the OP occurs is at a bar where several fellows have had a few drinks.

     
    #7 Crabtownboy, Jan 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2012
  8. Bro. Curtis

    Bro. Curtis
    Expand Collapse
    <img src =/curtis.gif>

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2001
    Messages:
    20,256
    Likes Received:
    4
    Most good study bibles have the original words translated literally, in the notes. I have an exhaustive concordance that helps, as well. That saves a lot of Hebrew, Aramaic, & Greek study. For instance, when Jesus came out of the water from being baptized, the KJV says "opened" to describe what happened to the sky, before God spoke. However, the word "opened" is translated from a word that means "ripped apart".....(if memory serves correctly.)

    But is this thread about scripture study, darts, or Mark Twain ?
     
  9. plain_n_simple

    plain_n_simple
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2011
    Messages:
    1,887
    Likes Received:
    5
    Haha...my next question was this also, darts or Twain?
     
  10. billwald

    billwald
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2000
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    John Calvin said he didn't comment on Revelation because he didn't understand it. It was goofy dispensational teaching about Revelation that chased me away from Baptist denomination. I have concluded that anyone who claims he understands revelation is blowing smoke.
     
  11. David Lamb

    David Lamb
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,982
    Likes Received:
    0
    I came across this at a website about phrase origins. As you see, it includes the phrase from Great Expectations that you mentioned:
    This mainly British expression means “not by any means”, “not at all” and often turns up in conventional expressions such as they weren’t beaten yet, not by a long chalk.
    It goes back to the days in which a count or score of almost any kind was marked up on a convenient surface using chalk. At a pub or ale house this might be a note of the amount of credit you had been given (often called the chalk in the early nineteenth century*), which Charles Dickens refers to in Great Expectations: “There was a bar at the Jolly Bargemen, with some alarmingly long chalk scores in it on the wall at the side of the door, which seemed to me to be never paid off.”

    But the expression almost certainly comes from the habit of using chalk in such establishments to mark the score in a game, a habit which now survives in British pubs mainly in the game of darts. A chalk was the name given a single mark or score, so that a person might explain that somebody or other had lost a game of skittles by four chalks or you needed 31 chalks to finish. If your opponent had a long chalk, a big score, he was doing well.
    *Now called "the slate" or "the tab".
     

Share This Page

Loading...