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Interview with Rick Warren

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by gb93433, Oct 3, 2004.

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  1. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Bob,

    I wouldn't recommend hurling. It ain't no fun ... But the fact remains that if Warren fails to speak out on homosexuality and abortion, then he has compromised. I know your son is there and you have some affection for it, but I think you are letting that cloud your judgment on this. The fact that he has an abortion ministry and homosexual ministry does not offset the fact that he avoids the truth about sin in the pulpit (if he does).

    By contrast, there is a church in Seattle where the bulk of the congregation is very young. It is a post modern church full of searching, hurting people. When he preaches, he doesn't avoid calling sin sin. He doesn't back away from it so as not to offend people. He is not soft in the least. He preached a message about homosexuality and told them they needed to repent and get saved. IT is a post modern church that is growing hugely ... It shows you don't have to worry about offending people.
     
    #21 Pastor Larry, Oct 6, 2004
  2. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    However, I completely agree with you on this. However, one can be critical of Warren while also being accurate. These two things are not mutually exclusive.
     
    #22 Pastor Larry, Oct 6, 2004
  3. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick <img src=/532.jpg>Banned

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    Well, sort of. What he said is that he doesn't beat people over the head with their sins. In other words, if someone comes into his church who has had an abortion, then they don't need their past thrown in their faces. They don't need to be reminded that they are sinners. They know that already. He also said that God is more interested in the decisions they make today and in the future than he is with past sin. I don't think it had anything to do with not offending them, but rather with focusing on the decisions they make today and in the future.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
    #23 Joseph_Botwinick, Oct 6, 2004
  4. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    If God beat us over the head with all our sins most of us probably could not take it.

    There are times when God lifts me up and other times when he sits on me.

    I never see Paul ever preach against the God of Molech where they sacrificed babies either. I could spend my entire life telling people what they shouldn't do and never bring them to the foot of the cross. It is only when they come to God then they realize their sin.

    I may be wrong but I cannot think of one single time when Jesus called people to come follow Him that he ever spent time telling them all about how much they've sinned but rather simply called them to follow Him.

    Mt. 4:19, "And He said to them, "Follow Me, and I will make you fishers of men."

    Mt. 8:22, "But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and allow the dead to bury their own dead."

    Mt. 9:9, "As Jesus went on from there, He saw a man called Matthew, sitting in the tax collector's booth; and He said to him, "Follow Me!" And he got up and followed Him."

    Mt. 16:24, "Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone wishes to come after Me, he must deny himself, and take up his cross and follow Me."

    Mt. 19:21, "Jesus said to him, "If you wish to be complete, go and sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow Me."

    Mk. 2:14, "As He passed by, He saw Levi the son of Alphaeus sitting in the tax booth, and He said to him, "Follow Me!" And he got up and followed Him."

    Jn 1:43, "The next day He purposed to go into Galilee, and He found Philip. And Jesus said to him, "Follow Me."

    Jn 21:19, "Now this He said, signifying by what kind of death he would glorify God. And when He had spoken this, He said to him, "Follow Me!"

    Jn 21:22, "Jesus said to him, "If I want him to remain until I come, what is that to you? You follow Me!"

    There are many more.
     
    #24 gb93433, Oct 6, 2004
  5. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    Personally I have heard Warren preach some tough stuff.

    One thing he does is to care for people in real ways. They ahve also planted a number of churches (something like 40). How many churches can say that.

    Where Warren is it is much harder to win people to Christ than many other places in the US.

    So before we criticize Warren let us start a few churches and do some ministry to hurting people then maybe we can identify with what it takes.
     
    #25 gb93433, Oct 6, 2004
  6. Bob Colgan

    Bob Colgan New Member

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    So we all have to statrt 40 churchs are so before we can judge if this guy is on track.
    yea okay that's logical sounds like something Warren would say from the pulpit.

    Bob C
     
    #26 Bob Colgan, Oct 7, 2004
  7. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    gb93433---the "Flip Side" of the coin to Jesus' statement, "Follow Me" ---- is

    "Stop sinning!"

    and if we sin---we have an Advocate with the Father, the Lord Jesus Christ!

    I'm sure that Brother Warren is a pretty good guy! No doubt called into the ministry. A lot of guys on the board say that "Warren ain't tough on sin!"----well, how do they know???

    I can expound on John 3:16 and be tough on sin! "For God so loved the world that He gave His only Begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life."

    The problem isn't Warren and his book---the problem is pastors and laypeople who adapt the mentality---"Boooooy! If we just take this book and teach it to our people----buuuuuuuddy, we can have a church that thrives like Warren's!"

    It isn't teaching Warren's book that makes a church thrive----its teaching Jesus' book! You can teach Warren's book from cover to cover and you still won't have nothin'!!!! But you take Jesus' book---and you start preaching "the whole Council of God"---that's when you'll have somethin'!!!!!! I thought to myself----"Am I gonna get on the Band Wagon and teach Warren's book to my people ---- or---- am I gonna do like Warren and teach my people God's word from the Word???"

    Brother David
     
    #27 blackbird, Oct 7, 2004
  8. pinoybaptist

    pinoybaptist Active Member
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    Blackbird, ole buddy, in me book, yo' a white bird ! [​IMG]

    preach it !! [​IMG]

    Jesus' Book is THE Book ! [​IMG]
     
    #28 pinoybaptist, Oct 7, 2004
  9. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
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    "Conflicting Paradigms"

    Let us apply our methodology evaluation criteria to the "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints"

    They have millions of members, many churches, lots of money, and claim to be Christian.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
    #29 Bro. James, Oct 7, 2004
  10. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    "They have millions of members, many churches, lots of money, and claim to be Christian."

    but what did Jesus say

    "Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee."

    Jesus is gonna tell the morman church---"You see those Born again Believers?? Its them that I love!"
     
    #30 blackbird, Oct 7, 2004
  11. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    Baptists are "fadists". I teach a seminar on it. Here is a little summary (sans illustration)</font>
    • Busing would build our churches, so we bought old school buses. Flock to hear Jack Hyles at Pastor's School and become just like him.</font>
    • Christian schools would build our churches, so every little podunk holler church had a "school". Flock to hear Donald Howard and ACE and we would be with the big boys.</font>
    • Prophecy Conferences would build our churches and we need to keep Scofield's vision alive. So we brought in Jack Van Impe or bought a whole series of fiction by LaHaye.</font>
    • Youth ministries would build our churches, since they are the church of the future. So we rushed to buy Awana uniforms and ran in circles for games.</font>
    • Mega-ministries would build our churches, so we started 18 different ministries and ran our little flock into the ground. Went to hear Falwell at a Super Conference.</font>
    • Music would build our churches, so we got the CCM slides, power point, drums and tambourines, almost driving pentecostals from their sacred niche with the throbbing rock beat or the syruppy "hear kitty kitty" non-music.</font>
    • Deeper life would build our church, so we delved deep in the word and turned our vision inward. Rushed to hear MacArthur or Piper to learn the nuances of Greek.</font>
    • Purpose Driven would build our church, so we ran to Warren's books and conferences, hoping to immitate great growth.</font>
    Problem is we forgot that Jesus said "I" will build "My" church. Not Rick or John or Jerry or Jack . . or Bob.

    [used by permission of Grif.Net ministries. All rights reserved]
     
    #31 Dr. Bob, Oct 7, 2004
  12. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    If that is the case, then fine. As I said, I didn't see it and haven't seen a transcript of it. I do believe people need to be reminded they are sinners. We too easily forget that and start thinking we are sick, or socially maladjusted, or the victim of circumstances. No, we are sinners. However, we do not need to remind people of their past. But the past must be addressed to give hope for the future.
     
    #32 Pastor Larry, Oct 7, 2004
  13. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
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    Good seminar in a bulleted box, Bob. Well said.
     
    #33 Pastor Larry, Oct 7, 2004
  14. gb93433

    gb93433 Active Member
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    The point is how many of Warren's critics have even attempted to start one church. I would presume the answer is almost zero.

    Until you have ever attempted to start a chruch you have no idea what it is like.

    From what I know of Warren he's tough on leaders. nobody does ministry without proving themselves. How many deacons in your chruches are required to be discipling people. I can tell you the answer is close to zero.
     
    #34 gb93433, Oct 7, 2004
  15. Bob Colgan

    Bob Colgan New Member

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    gb93433, with youe comments I guess you have been to every church in the world because it's the only way you could say the thing's your saying. "How many deacons in your church are required to be decipling people. I can tell you the answer is close to zero." How do you know that? answer: YOU DON"T
    Dr Bob I like summary alot, so how do you write that and justify what is going on with Warrens book?


    Bob C
     
    #35 Bob Colgan, Oct 8, 2004
  16. Dr. Bob

    Dr. Bob Administrator
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    I am biased. My son is the General Director of Purpose Driven Youth Ministries. I want help him sell his books. :eek: :eek:

    Seriously, I am NOT an apologist for Warren or PDL. I do see him crucified and attacked by people who don't know him, understand where he is at or why he wrote what he did.

    PDL is "Christianity 101", basic pablum for the new believer (or baby believers who have been sitting in our pews for years). But Rick's doctrine is the basic SBC Baptist Faith and Message. His Gospel is ROCK SOLID, not like the 1-2-3-pray-after-me "gospel" that so many use.

    Understanding this helps me tolerate Warren.
     
    #36 Dr. Bob, Oct 8, 2004
  17. intojesus

    intojesus New Member

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    My church is doing the 40 days of purpose and I am so confused about it. Okay one thing I REALLY DO NOT AGREE WITH.....We are stopping EVERTHING while we do the 40 days...We have a ministry called Faith Evagelism and that is stopping and no Christimas concerts this year, we use to go to all the malls and I know that it brought some people to the church and some got saved but not this year....and we are NOT allowed to plan any events during this time...and my church looks like a commercial now...there are all these banners and posters...40 DAYS OF PURPOSE.....Don't get me wrong I read the book and I liked it but it feels weird what we are doing, I just can't explain it or put my finger on it but EVERYTHING IS 40DAYS, 40DAYS and we invested tons of money into buying the books and all these videos and in a few weeks we are having a ministry fair to encourage people to sign up for ministries and there will be food, and cotton candy and people in animal costumes, its suppose to look like a carnival and today they did a drama and it was an "American Idol" mimic and they tied it in into were here to worship Jesus but we used this secular show that makes fun of people and I don't know it just all felt weird to me...Comments??????

    intojesus
     
    #37 intojesus, Oct 17, 2004
  18. blackbird

    blackbird Active Member

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    I would encourage you to do a little investagation into the "American Idol" thing---and the clowns/carnivals---chances are---this "silly" stuff probably has nothing to do with Warren's book----but are part of the Leadership campaign ideas that some editors got together and compiled

    "We can have Binky the Clown over here!"

    "Put the Dunkin' booth over here"

    "Have a wishin' well right yonder!"

    Know what I mean?? Pretty soon you're at the County Fair!!
     
    #38 blackbird, Oct 18, 2004
  19. intojesus

    intojesus New Member

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    Well I have and I do know the Anmerican Idol idea was one of our own but the carnival is Warren. He did a ministry fair and its suppose to look like a fair.This is part of the 40 days plan.

    intojesus
     
    #39 intojesus, Oct 18, 2004
  20. pastorjeff

    pastorjeff New Member

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    We did the 40 days as a church about 2 years ago, and we made the entire focus of the church that study. I thought it was great!!! Instead of bouncing off every wall in the building trying to stay busy, we actually took some time to focus. If the Lord puts His return off for awhile what does it hurt to take 40 days out of your life to focus and prepare. I enjoyed it so much I felt we needed to do that all the time. Not the 40 days but focus on one thing as a church for a period of time. Churches are just too "busy" these days.
     
    #40 pastorjeff, Oct 18, 2004
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