Intrusive Questionnaire Given To First Graders; See Parent’s EPIC Response!

Discussion in 'News / Current Events' started by Revmitchell, Apr 6, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
  2. North Carolina Tentmaker

    North Carolina Tentmaker
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2003
    Messages:
    2,355
    Likes Received:
    0
    But they are asking to put their kid in a special ed program. By asking for that are they not opening the door for at least some of these questions. I mean when we ask the government to pay for something, don't we give up the right to be offended when they ask questions about it?
     
  3. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    That is not true. These parents as all parents do are paying taxes that go to those schools. This is not a free ride. The government doesn't pay for anything. The tax payers do.
     
  4. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    The angry parent who let loose her wrath on this paper is wrong on several accounts.


    • This form has nothing to do with Common Core. It's a special education questionnaire.
    • No school administrator will be asking the child any of these questions. It's for an adult to fill out.
    • If one of these indicators is affecting the child at school to a degree that their behavior and or grades suffer, then it IS the school's business.


    Let me shed some light on this. See the top of the form where it says "Student Name" and then on the far right "Person Completing the Form".

    This form is for an adult (parent, guardian, teacher, .... or anyone who lives with/works with the child) to fill out.

    NO STUDENT ever sees these special education forms. And they are highly private.

    Nothing is concrete or written in stone if an adult checks off that one of these indicators is contributing to the child's lack of academic ability. This is a form that will be reviewed by a special education committee made of up special education teachers, regular education teachers, parents/guardians of the child, and interested parties/child advocate (brought in by the parents or guardians).

    EVERYTHING that could possible be a cause of a child's declining academic progress or severe/chronic behavioral problems are considered.

    A plan of action is made that MUST BE APPROVED by and REVIEWED FREQUENTLY by the parent or guardian. That's called an IEP.

    The parent or guardian get the LAST word in all special education meetings.

    In fact, I cannot do ANYTHING with a special education child that the parent has not approved of and they can request modifications to be changed at any time.

    Even if the parent is dead wrong - I have to abide by their wishes. For example, I have a student now named Mikey. He is physically, developmentally, socially, and academically behind his peers. He is 15 and in the 7th grade.

    Mikey's main academic problem is that he cannot read functionally. So, one of his modifications in science, history, and math is that when it comes time for a test - he goes to the special education room and the test is read aloud to him. Questions are not paraphrased and answers are not given, hinted at, or altered. He should not be penalized on a science, history, or math test for not being able to read the test questions well enough to understand what they are asking.

    This has always worked wonders and he feels confident in his knowledge of the subject matter - just not his reading. In fact, in math, he is one of my brighter students and can reason really well.

    Well, this year, his mother has decided she doesn't want his tests read aloud anymore.

    It has been a HUGE disaster. His grades have dropped and his frustration level has increased.

    But, Mikey's mom gets the last word. I've tried at the meetings to explain this to her, but to no avail.

    So, this other angry mother in the OP's document doesn't have to participate in the exploration of why her child may be suffering academically or socially to the point that help is needed.

    She can pitch the form in the trash. She can spit in the school's face all she wants.

    She gets the last word - dead wrong or not.
     
  5. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's ridiculous. What do any of those questions have to do with a speech impediment? And no, as a mental health professional, I can tell you that none of these questions would have been asked in evaluating a child for special needs education prior to the last four years. This is just another example of how the election of the Little Marxist Dictator has given the serpents that were hiding in the dark, dank crevices of society to now feel free to crawl out and attempt to enact their agenda, thinking -- perhaps correctly -- they now have the cover of big, intrusive government to do so.
     
  6. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    Well, you could come to my school and talk the boy in 5th grade who stutters really badly and ask him if his father's abuse of his mother and his father's drunken episodes and threats to his life have anything to do with his stuttering.

    I assure you - it does. You'd be surprised what affects speech delays, stuttering, "baby talk", and more.

    All aspects of what could possibly be causing a child's difficulties must be asked.

    My students are testing for the Common Core state tests right now. Please say a prayer that they just do their best and just be calm. It's our first time for the CCSS testing.

    I'll let you all know what I think of it later. I'll give an honest opinion.
     
  7. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    That's not something the school should be dealing with. It should be referred to the authorities. Your views are biased and slanted as one of today's brainwashed educatiors, as your previous post proved.
    Wrong, they are right on just about every count.
    It is a questionnaire that would never have seen the light of day prior to the socialist/Marxist mindset that made Common COR possible.
    Regardless, they are irrevelant to a parents' request for speech therapy, and should not be asked in light of the fact the problem is already identified.
    WRONG, wrong, wrong!! The school's professionals are not licensed to treat, not even to identify, any of these problems! This is what galls me about today's educators and administrators of education -- and yes, I said that right, because the latter are rarely also the former. They think because they have a few hours of psychology classes in the midst of their educational training, they are qualified to "diagnose" anything. I've got a Master's degree in behavioral psychology and I my license doesn't allow me to make a diagnose. All of my observations and analysis must be forwarded to a Ph.D or a psychiatrist, with my records, to be confirmed. Usually my bottom line is confirmed, but sometimes it is not, and I am grateful for that backup to my opinion. I miss things, I am not familiar enough with others, and that means my client would suffer if someone else wasn't making the final decision.

    Schools can't afford doctorate-level psychologists. They hire Masters degrees like mine, though it is unlikely they have the LAC or the LMFC or similar licensing in counseling practice I have, therefore they are rarely qualified to even attempt a diagnosis, yet they blithely make one anyway, it is rarely if ever reviewed, yet their opinion becomes the student's fate -- and they are nowhere nearly qualified to do what they are doing, and getting away with!
    If you believe that, I've got beachfront property in New Mexico for sale. Schools are not subject to HIPAA, they are not subject to 42 CFR Part 2B, the addictions community's Right to Privacy guideline, which is stricter than HIPAA. Teachers see this stuff, and they not only do not have the right to see that level of analysis of a student's mental health issues, the analysis is almost uniformly bad because it is done by unqualified individuals.

    School psychologists are trained to deal with emotional and educational issues within the structure of the school. Their training is aimed at an educational environment. They get what I would call a 30,000-feet view of psychology, and for what they are going to do with that knowledge, it should be more than sufficient. Unfortunately, most of them I have talked to believe they are qualified to do far more than that limited range of providing educational counseling, instruction, mentoring and, when necessary, referral to other more qualified professionals. They think they are "just as qualified." They are not.
    I wish that were true. Unfortunately, unqualified people are making those check marks, and those check marks become "diagonsis." That is because of this system in use in our schools whereby school psychologists are encouraged to "be qualified" when they are not, as detailed above.
    All of whom are qualified to be educators, none of whom are qualified to be making mental health decisions.
    Except that those issues are being considered by people who do not know what they are doing outside of the educational realm. They have no business making mental health decisions. All of those issues should be referred to outside agencies or licensed therapists. Unfortunately, only the most severe issues are treated thusly.
    And usually, the school dictates to the parent or guardian what will be done. My son had ADD as a middle schooler. They told me what they were going to do, without accepting or even listening to my input. I told them what there were going to do would not work, because their research on ADD was 15 years behind and they were making decisions without having the best information, and without having my son evaluated. They would not accept an evaluation I had done by one of my colleagues who specialized in adolescent psychology. I told them to stuff it, we'd take care of it ourselves, and we did. He grew out of it, as many do, within eighteen months.
    Year, right. :laugh:
    Then things have changed. If they have, so much for the better. You give an example in your post of a parent rejecting good advice. I agree, that was a stupid decision on her part, but this was entirely an educational analysis that led to the decision to read his tests to him. There was no psychological evaluation necessary to provide that option. That is the kind of thing an educator can do well. But your scenario has nothing to do with the questionnaire the parents refused to answer. Your student is/was 15. This is a first-grader with a speech impediment. He/she needs a speech therapist, not a mental health evaluation. The questionnaire is abusive, unnecessary, and I can all but guarantee would have been evaluated by someone unqualified to do so.
     
    #7 thisnumbersdisconnected, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2014
  8. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    I believe those questions are actually quite valid and would be applicable to ANY student. If I were a teacher, understanding that one of my students had experienced a trauma in his life would be helpful to understand why he is acting the way he is. This is not just about speech but all special education services. I believe I filled out a similar form 17 years ago when my daughter started kindergarten so I doubt it has anything to do with Common Core.
     
  9. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    Those questions are none of the business of any government agency. Ever
     
  10. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    TND - Yes, the authorities should deal with horrible things that go on in the home, but we as teachers have to deal with those children at school who come from abusive homes.

    I'm not sure what state you live in, but here in Louisiana no teacher is ever allowed to diagnose a child in any area. We are not trained to diagnose and I wouldn't even attempt to diagnose a child.

    We are asked all the time to fill out surveys telling what we see. The parents fill these out, too. Medical records are submitted - from the child's physician or physical therapist or occupational therapist. At my school, PT's and OT's come all the time to give the child services during the day.

    After everyone's input on what they experience with the child, a specialist who IS a trained diagnostician comes to the school and evaluates the child. This specialist is not part of the faculty nor are they a teacher.

    A teacher never diagnoses.

    That's how it works in Louisiana.
     
  11. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,198
    Likes Received:
    376
    For those taking care of our children during the day, it actually is, especially if we ask for special services. This may not be asked of every student (although I think many of those issues, if present in a child's life, should be told to the teacher) but of those who are needing extra services, it may affect what he/she receives and how they receive it.

    Heck, I remember speaking to my daughter's teacher about when my grandmother died. My daughter was very close to her and so it was affecting her ability to focus at the time (she had ADD as it was). The teacher was grateful to know about this so that she could properly care for Lauren during the school day.
     
  12. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Neither are your school psychologists, who are the ones I'm talking about making diagnoses they are not qualified to make. They are not licensed to do so, yet they do so anyway. I was not talking about teachers.
    And those records will most likely be shared by school medical staff with teachers, counselors and administrators. That is a violation of HIPAA, and in some cases it would be a violation of 42 CFR Part 2B, because there are addicted children in your school. Those records should never, ever be shared with you, yet I'm sure you are aware of certain "conditions" that may affect your classroom. You should not know those things. HIPAA says you should not know those things.
    Chances are, that "trained diagostician" isn't qualified to make any kind of mental health diagnosis, yet the school system is letting them do so. They may have a degree in psychology, but more likely they have a social work degree, and that latter makes them no more qualified to diagnose than a degree in psychology not also accompanied by appropriate state mental health licensures makes them -- which is to say, not at all. Having the title "school psychologist" does not qualify one to do anything but counsel, mentor, instruct, or refer for outside intervention, and it is debatable that most of them are even qualified to do that much. Their education provided them with an overview of psychology as it applies very generally, none of them I've ever met have a specialty in counseling or intervention. Yet most do far more than that, and the departments of education around the country shield them. They are breaking the law.
    And again, I didn't say you do. :thumbsup:
     
    #12 thisnumbersdisconnected, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2014
  13. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    The government is far to intrusive. They are now using the schools and hospitals to be even more intrusive. The teachers need to teach and nothing else. Doctors need to heal and nothing else. The American gestapo needs to stop all this non sense or the American people will stop putting up with it an a way they will not like.
     
  14. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    Uh no it is not.
     
  15. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    I have a bi-polar student. Her diagnosis is from an MD, not anyone affiliated with the school.

    I am aware of her diagnosis from the doctor, but I do not know who the doctor is or the meds she takes. I HAVE to be aware of these children who have diabetes, epilepsy, and more. I don't know the particulars of the meds and doctors, but I know they have been diagnosed by an MD.

    I have no access to their medical records that the RN does.

    By law, the two registered nurses who resides at our school must know what her medications are. Not that they administer them (they do administer some meds - upon parent/doctor request), but if my student had an episode to the point of calling an ambulance and we could not get ahold of her mother, the RN could tell the EMT's the meds she takes.
     
  16. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    #16 Revmitchell, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2014
  17. thisnumbersdisconnected

    thisnumbersdisconnected
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2013
    Messages:
    8,448
    Likes Received:
    0
    Does the school have a properly filled-out Waiver of Privacy Rights that you can know the diagnosis? HIPAA says your school nurse must have one on file to have shared the information with you.

    Before the nurse shared that information, did you ask to see the Waiver? You should have, because you as a professional yourself should respect the laws and regulations governing other professions, not to mention the sensitive nature of the information to which you have become privy.

    Was the diagnosis made by a psychiatrist? A medical doctor is not qualified to diagnose Bi-Polar Disorder (BPD), unless the doctor is a psychiatrist. There are two major types of BPD, and three subsets in each, with five to six criteria to make one or the other diagnosis. Are you aware of which type and subset she suffers? If not, the information is worthless, and the RN at the school is not qualified to report the condition to EMTs if she does not have that information as well.

    Do you know what kind of medical/mental health emergency could arise that you potentially need to know this information? Could you list that/those scenario/s?
    Here is why I asked that last question. These are medical conditions, with medical consequences. BPD is primarily a mental health issue with a physiological cause -- a brain chemistry imbalance, and if the girl is on medication that controls the condition, there is virtually no medical emergency that could arise that would either be caused by, or that would affect, her bi-polar condition. In reality, you have information about her you don't need, and likely shouldn't have. I wonder if the nurse revealed this information to you illegally?
    This is no offense to you, Scarlett, because as a teacher there's no reason you should have to analyze such a disclosure, but the bottom line is, BPD is actually quite common, easily controlled by medication, and there is absolutely no reason for you, or even for the school nurse, to know about it. Unless the girl's parents wanted the school to know -- and I can't imagine any scenario they might anticipate that requires you know -- this is a violation of the girl's privacy rights under HIPAA.
    Well, there's that. Good. Again, no offense.
    Not if she isn't taking the medications at school. It is none of the school's business, or -- yet again, no offense -- yours.
    This is a gross misnomer. "An episode" of BPD is long-developing and most symptoms are barely detectable to a layman as anything other than depression or euphoria. While there are particularly isolated and rare instances in which BPD can result in violence, it is extremely unlikely a student suffering BPD who might potentially exhibit such an event would be free to live at home and go to school. Most likely she would be hospitalized until her meds could be balanced and she could be counseled in such a way as to help her cope with the triggers that result in such episodes.
     
    #17 thisnumbersdisconnected, Apr 7, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 7, 2014
  18. Scarlett O.

    Scarlett O.
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 22, 2002
    Messages:
    9,836
    Likes Received:
    115
    If she stab herself and/or someone else during an episode .... or in her case takes her 7th grade 250 pound frame and beats the crap out of someone and there is blood, yes we call her parents and if parents cannot be found, the law and an ambulance might be called if someone is hurt.

    We've called the ambulance two times this year because parents were out of pocket and could not be reached: [1] a student was violently seizing and had never done so before and [2] a child fell off the monkey bars and broke his arm.

    I'd like to see some of you who despise what I do and THINK you know what I do actually DO what I do.

    If you could see this girl and be around her when she's about to go off in a manic rage - you all wouldn't be complaining about things like this.

    It isn't overkill.

    I've had to physically restrain her once while she was trying to get her hand around another student's neck. She didn't succeed and I will tell you the truth - it was all I could do not to collapse from restraining her. I'm 52 years old for pity's sake.

    She's genius-level smart and but bi-polar enough for that all to be a waste.

    I don't think I can contribute any more to this thread as I never seem to get my point across when it comes to what REALLY happens at school.

    My students are working hard on the state test and I'm going to take them outside in about 45 minutes to run and play.
     
  19. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    Well you did not say that in the other post. It just went straight to call the ambulance.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,378
    Likes Received:
    790
    Anyway a bi polar student has nothing to do with this thread.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page

Loading...