inventor of music?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by UnchartedSpirit, Mar 11, 2006.

  1. UnchartedSpirit

    UnchartedSpirit
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    Genesis 4:21
    His brother's name was Jubal, the first musician--the inventor of the harp and flute. Oh, wait and To Lamech's other wife, Zillah, was born Tubal-cain. He was the first to work with metal, forging instruments of bronze and iron. Tubal-cain had a sister named Naam

    do we take this by faith also or can it be backed?
     
  2. standingfirminChrist

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    Actually, Naam was a son, not a daughter

    1 Chronicles 4:15 And the sons of Caleb the son of Jephunneh; Iru, Elah, and Naam: and the sons of Elah, even Kenaz. Naam means 'pleasantness'

    The sister of Jubal and Tubal-cain was Naamah. Naamah means 'instructor.'
     
  3. UnchartedSpirit

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    so he was the first instructor of music?
     
  4. standingfirminChrist

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    earthly, I would say that Jubal was the first musician. Scripture bears this out.
     
  5. Frenchy

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    I believe it started with Satan...

    God did not create evil, evil was the result of disobeying God.

    Ezekiel chapter 28 is about God creating Satan and his fall. God made Lucifer supreme over all other angels; second only to himself , Jesus and the Holy Spirit. Lucifer possessed gifts and talents which were a part of his WHOLE BEING: Intelect, Beauty and Music. Ezekiel 28:12 says
    "Thou sealest up the sum, full of WISDOM and perfect in BEAUTY" Ezekiel 28:13 says "The workmanship of they TABRETS (symbols and drums) and of thy pipes (windpipes) was prepared IN thee in the day thou was created." and verse 14 says, "Thou are the anoited cherub that coverth" (head angel, possible choir director)

    Satans Fall...

    Ezekiel 28:16 say's KJV "By the multitude of thy merchandise (gifts and talents) thy have filled the midst of thee with violence (rebellion,Satan took a third of the angels with him when he fell Rev. 12:9) therefore I will cast thee profane out of the mountain of God."

    When Satan fell he took his gifts with him (Romans 11:29) Since then till this day, Satan has distorted all that is good and of God. And he always mixes enough truth with lies. Even his beauty he has corrupted through sensuality, sex outside of marriage, etc. And his intellect, the wisdom of this world, which is foolishness to God. So has he distorted his gift of music, I believe it started full force in the late 50's and 60's (time when the satanic bible was written) which is a whole different topic and thread.
     
  6. standingfirminChrist

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    yes, Frenchy. in the heavens, satan was the first to know music.

    On earth, earthly man... it was Jubal
     
  7. UnchartedSpirit

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    um, so is this true istory by an archaeolgists standards?
     
  8. standingfirminChrist

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    Uncharted, it is true because it is in the Bible. I care not to prove everything in the Bible by an archaeological find. If God had wanted us to prove everything, He would not have had Paul include in his writings to the Church at Corinth, 'For we walk by faith and not by sight.'
     
  9. Helen

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    God invented music! "Where were you when I laid the earth's foundation?...while the morning stars sang together, and all the angels shouted for joy?" Job 38:4,7

    Please note the angels were shouting, not singing. In the meantime, astronomers and physicists have found that stars do give forth harmonics in their burning. So please don't mix up the angels, who shouted, with the stars, which sang.

    Jubal was not necessarily the first musician. However he evidently mastered both string and wind instruments of the time and taught them.

    Naamah -- Tubal-cain's sister. In Jewish legend, she was the wife of Noah, and that is why she is mentioned. Her name, in more traditional spelling, is Noe-mah. "Ma" is the root for water. "Noe" is another spelling for Noah. The name we read in the Bible may well mean "Mrs. Noah of the Water."

    The actual name 'Naamah', however, translates into "Pleasing," or "Pleasantness." It does not translate into 'instructor.'
     
  10. Frenchy

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    It is a bit obvious and redundant to say God created music of course he did he created ALL things. But music was created IN Satan, he just didn't play music he WAS music!

    Morning Stars are angels. there are many verses talking about angels being morning stars and angels singing. I have to find the list tomorrow but angels did sing.

    [ March 12, 2006, 04:45 AM: Message edited by: Frenchy ]
     
  11. Helen

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    The construction of Job 38 is not parallel, but listing two different things. The angels do not sing anywhere in the Bible until Revelation.

    Ez. 28 says Satan was created a guardian cherub of Eden. If he was created music itself, then ALL music is now corrupted, and we know that is not the case! For in Psalms we are told to praise Him with music!

    The morning stars are the stars lit the first day of creation -- the population II stars in the cores and halos of galaxies. The population I stars, such as our sun, in the spiral arms, were not lit until day four. In atomic years there is about a 4.5 billion year gap in ages. When that time is corrected via the redshift curve to orbital, or calendar time, the difference in the times between the lighting of the two populations of stars is about three and a half days.

    It is because of the morning stars shining on day one that we had light from the center of our own galaxy, from its long-gone quasar, to light up the newly created earth, giving us the first three days before the sun was lit.
     
  12. Frenchy

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    Do angels sing?

    "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: 'Who is this who darkens counsel By words without knowledge? Now prepare yourself like a man: I will question you, and you shall answer Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell Me, if you have understanding. Who determined its measurements? Surely you know! Or who stretched the line upon it? To what were its foundations fastened? Or who laid its cornerstone, When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?' Job 38:1-7 NAS

    The word "stars" is Strong's #3556 and one of its definitions is "heavenly power (that serve God)." Thus, a star could be an angel. Both my commentaries: Jamieson, Fausset, Brown and Matthew Henry, state that "morning stars" as used in this verse are indeed angels. Also, we can regard Rev. 1:20 where Jesus tells John "The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches . . . "
    And they sang in a mighty chorus:
    "The Lamb is worthy--the Lamb who was killed.
    He is worthy to receive power and riches
    and wisdom and strength
    and honor and glory and blessing."
    New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust

    “Then I looked and heard the voice of many angels, numbering thousands upon thousands, and ten thousand times ten thousand. They encircled the throne and the living creatures and the elders. In a loud voice they sang: "Worthy is the Lamb, who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and praise!" Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, singing: "To Him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” Revelation 5:11-13.
    The Greek word could mean saying or singing… in context since the verses before have similar words sung by the twenty four elders it is best translated sung.

    “And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four [and] twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints. And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation; And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.” Revelation 5:8-10.

    "Yes, angels do sing."
     
  13. Frenchy

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    I never said he was ALL music, I said he was created a musical being who was in charge of that gift in heaven, just like he was more beautiful and smarter than the other angels! There is good music and bad music. which can be determined in distinction in melody, harmony and rhythm. Bible talks about melody 5 times in the bible showing the importance of melody. if rhythm out does melody and harmony in music it becomes distorted in it's true form that God intended.

    Thou sealest up the sum, full of WISDOM and perfect in BEAUTY" Ezekiel 28:13 says "The workmanship of they TABRETS (symbols and drums) and of thy pipes (windpipes) was prepared IN thee in the day thou was created." and verse 14 says, "Thou are the anoited cherub that coverth" (head angel, possible choir director)
     
  14. rsr

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    Given the qualities of the human voice, I believe humans have made music as long as there have been humans.
     
  15. UnchartedSpirit

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    maybe I should have said, who was the first to "Discover" Music? Apparantely it is wrong to say for example Isaac Newton invented Calculus, God did. So Newton "discovered" calculus, along with a german guy who was less popular. So did Jabbal discover music before anyone else?
     
  16. Aaron

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    Jubal is simply the father of all who play instruments. This does not mean that he was first to ever fashion or play an instrument, but that he is the first notable one. He probably made it a science. In other words, he probably had a music academy. He was of Cain, whose descendents were the first to build cities and specialize in trades and disciplines.
     
  17. Frenchy

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    i agree
     
  18. Helen

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    How do we know that Cain was the FIRST to build a city? How do we know that he was the FIRST to specialize in trades and disciplines? I don't read that in the Bible.
     
  19. Frenchy

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    ok that part i wasn't too sure about but i agree with his statement overall
     
  20. Aaron

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    Let me rephrase it. He's the first to be noted for it, and all those who are said to be the fathers of this or that discipline, are his descendants.

    I have no extrabiblical, Jewish fables to cite to confirm it as a hard fact. :rolleyes:
     

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