Invitation or Summons 2

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Don, Dec 28, 2010.

  1. Don

    Don
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    Previous thread closed due to page limit.

    Where we left off:
    Quote:
    I'm not asking you to lie; I'm not asking for anyone to "let me have my way."

    You clearly stated that the verse speaks of their condition when he found them; the verse does not speak of this. It speaks of Paul preaching without excellency of speech, or wisdom.

    The chapter, without question, speaks of lost people; there is no argument. The only correction I'm asking of you is your mis-statement regarding verse 1.

    If you can't admit this, then you are already lying -- to yourself. Further, you damage your own testimony by not admitting that you simply mis-spoke regarding one verse out of over 31,000 in the Bible.

    If you can provide a commentary for 1 Cor 2:1-5 that indicates these verses are speaking of lost people, which would then substantiate your claim that verse 1 speaks of the condition of the sinner, then--just as I have done before--I will gladly recant and admit my error.

    (reminder: the commentaries you've presented previously are focused around verse 14. You need to provide commentary references specifically focused on verse 1)

    If you can't, then simply say you can't and let's move on. I don't need you to start a thread with the title "Luke was wrong," or use some super-sized font; just looking for you to admit that you're human, and once in a while, while not actually making a mistake, you might possibly mis-step. Just like the rest of us.

    I believe it's already well past 10:00pm your time; I don't expect a response, whatever it may be, until tomorrow. Good night.
     
  2. Luke2427

    Luke2427
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    Don, I am not obstinately holding on just to keep from admitting error.

    I can say I am wrong when I believe I am. I have done so plenty of times on here.

    As a matter of fact, first thing this morning I responded to someone who corrected me in a pm and I yielded. I do not have a problem admitting I am wrong when I really am.

    But your relentless prodding to get me to admit something that isn't so, and on something so infinitesimally insignificant, is draining.

    This is the last thing that I will say about verse 1 of chapter two and then you can have the last word whatever it may be.

    This exchange began with a discussion of 2:14 and whether or not the "natural man" in that verse refers to a carnal Christian or an unregenerate sinner.

    Yours, or somebody's, contention was that Corinthians was written to carnal Christians and therefore 2:14 is speaking of carnal Christians.

    I pointed out that beginning in chapter 2 Paul begins a discourse to the Corinthians recollecting to them his ministry to them when he first arrived at Corinth.

    That puts chapter two in context.

    The pronoun "you" in the phrase "when I came to YOU" refers to the Corinthians in the state in which he found them.

    The state in which he found them was natural- unregenerate.

    He goes into speaking in verse one about his spirit anointed preaching which brought about their conversion and he speaks of why some do not convert culminating in verse 14- because they remain in their natural state.

    Verse one sets up the proof that verse 14 is NOT speaking about carnal Christians. Verse one is clearly speaking about his preaching ministry- but the clear implication is that it was his preaching ministry to the lost Corinthians.

    That they are there in verse one is plainly manifest: "when I came to YOU"

    I have not misspoken on this. I meant what I said and I was correct.

    I will provide no commentary on this because no commentator would bother to point out this obvious fact. You cannot provide a commentator to prove the contrary either. All you can do is provide a commentary that says that in verse one Paul is speaking about his preaching ministry. That is absolutely, unequivocally true. It does not in any way negate the obvious fact that when he came to them they were lost, natural.

    What I suppose you miss is that verse one is not directly speaking to their lost condition and since it is not that is all you can see.

    But their lost condition is there nonetheless.

    I'll give you the last word.
     
    #2 Luke2427, Dec 29, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 29, 2010
  3. Don

    Don
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    Everything you've said is true; and I've said as such myself previously. What you refuse to admit is that you said this verse speaks to their condition; but as you admit above, that is an inference, not a direct point in the verse. We can infer their condition; there has been no argument on that subject. But this verse does not speak of their condition, nor was Paul's intent in this verse to speak of their condition.

    No commentator bothers to point out "this obvious fact" because the sin condition is not what this verse is about. You will not provide commentary because no commentator agrees with your statement.

    Preach this verse, and verses 2-5, as they were meant to be preached: "I came to you without excellency of words or enticing speech, and I preached Christ crucified, as one of those things that the world calls foolish and of no account; humbly, knowing how insufficient I am."

    How can you possibly call that "infinitesimally insignificant"?

    Why do I hold on to this so perniciously? Because you're a pastor.

    So many scholars before you have determined these verses were meant a certain way; in this conversation, you've changed them into something else for your own purposes.

    You of all people should know the dangers and pitfalls of injecting meaning into a verse--especially for something as "infinitesimally insignificant" as winning an argument. As a leader of a flock, one who God has put in charge of His sheep, you have an even greater responsibility to resist such things.
     
  4. luke1616

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    Wow! Smmmack!
     
  5. charles_creech78

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    Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. Sounds like a Invitation to me!
     
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler
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    In some places in the scriptures, there's no question that the call to repentance and faith is couched as a command.

    In others, it is couched in softer language, giving room for describing the call as an invitation.

    So, if both are there, why does Paul, say, command some and invite others?

    Either way, there is an obvious urgency in Paul's writing and preaching, but it's also obvious that he used different language to different audiences.

    Anybody got any thoughts about this?
     
  7. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    Maybe because time is at hand! Just a thought:)
     
  8. Tom Butler

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    Could be. But when Paul was calling men to Christ, time obviously was not at hand, and wouldn't be for 2,000 years. Paul obviously didn't know that, though. But he may have been given insight from God that a terrible time was coming in AD 70, who knows.

    Either way, the gospel is a serious matter and shouldn't be softened.
     
  9. charles_creech78

    charles_creech78
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    Time is always at hand for all of us! :thumbsup:Joh 7:6 Then Jesus said unto them, My time is not yet come: but your time is alway ready.
     

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