Irredentism

Discussion in 'History Forum' started by Squire Robertsson, Jun 30, 2012.

  1. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    The movement agitating for the return of territory gained by the US from the Mexican-American War and the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo to Mexico is not unique. It will be about as successful as the Bolivian claim to land lost to Chile in the War of the Pacific (1879-1884).

    Please see the article below for other irredentist claims.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irredentism
     
  2. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    Surprise, Surprise. A non-throwing meat to the dogs thread and seemingly nobody cares. Folks, huff and puff about the Reconquista philosophy, but none want to put it into the broader context of other such movements.
     
  3. carpro

    carpro
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    Not necessarily all that remote a possibility.

    We are allowing them into the country in great numbers, putting them on welfare rolls, and taking care of their health issues.

    It seems that many of the latest arrivals, (last 20 years), are not assimilating, but maintaining a separate culture. And they're having tons of kids.

    Not soon. Certainly not in my lifetime, but something to think about for the future. The question is how many of them are thinking about it as well.
     
  4. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    What you're not taking into consideration is the non-trivial numbers of Mexicans in the land acquired from Mexico either in the Texas annexation or in the aftermath of the Mexican-American War and the Treaty of Guadeloupe-Hidalgo. Further, for the next hundred or so years the border really didn't exist for practical purposes of migration.

    As for assimilation, for years after the war, Mexican-Americans in the West were treated to much the same civil disabilities and indignities as the Blacks. A person can't assimilate into a population if that population won't let him. Another factor is Mexican-Americans were not separated from the "old country" by the Atlantic or Pacific Oceans. To compare the Mexican experience with the European, African, or Asian experience is like comparing apples with oranges.

    Yet another factor is many Hispanics in the West are not of Northern Mexican origin. They are from all over Mexico and Central America. It's hard for a San Salvadorean-American to be sympathetic with the idea of a Reconquista.

    So, yes, there is a vocal group of Chicano irredentists. But they are on the political margins.
     
  5. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    Fear

    The most extreme fear about the Reconquesta is the US ceding sovereignty of the former Mexican territory back to Mexico. The problem with this fear is it would take Alien Space Bats to make it reality. The fast majority of Mexican nationals/citizens and Americans of Mexican origin simply do not want to live under the rule of Mexico City.
     
  6. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    Another Fear

    Another fear is the fact that Mexican-Americans do not want to turn into WASPs. Sorry, but

    • The RCC part of the community will continue to celebrate the Feast Day of Our Lady of Guadeloupe.
    • The community (as a whole) will continue to eat tortillas as a staple and won't change over to just bread.
    • Rancheras, Nortenos, and Mariachi music will continue to be listened to. (Me, I like the three styles even though I don't understand the words and I'm a gringo from what back when.)
    • Thanks to the marketing by Mexican beer companies the Cinco de Mayo will continue to be celebrated as an ethnic holiday. FYI: the Cinco de Mayo is not Mexican Independence Day. MID is the 16th of September. 5 May celebrates the victory of an outnumbered Mexican Nationalist Army over the French at the Battle of Puebla. So, it's closer to being their version of our Battle of Saratoga.
    The list can go on. But does any of the following cause you to question the assimilation of a given group:

    • Lutefish Dinners at Zion Lutheran.
    • St. Patrick's Day Marches, the custom of wearing green on SPD.
    • Columbus Day (in some communities an Italian-American day.)
    • Chinese New Year celebrations.
     
  7. billwald

    billwald
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    There should be an international statute of limitations for stolen land. Title should pass when a nation steals land and holds it for ten years.
     
  8. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    Nothing was stolen. We won it fair and square in 1847.

    The US and Mexico were pretty much even at the start of the war. It wasn't our fault the Mexicans were in a three way split politically. Nor is it our fault they were armed with surplus smooth bore Brown Bess' while we had Hall carbines and our first generation of rifled muskets.

    The US victory was not a curb stomp. But somehow, the supporters of a Reconquesta think the US Army of the mid 1840s was the same one that won the ACW. It wasn't.
     
  9. LadyEagle

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    No, because:

    1. They do not violently protest in the streets for their "cause."
    2. Tax dollars do not have to be spent on interpreters.
    3. Tax dollars do not have to be spent on translating government documents into another language.
    4. For all practical purposes, those 4 groups you listed above have assimilated into the woven fabric of the USA without demands for "rights."
    5. How many violent crimes are committed by the above groups you listed?

    For starters.
     
  10. LadyEagle

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    PS: Since the drug wars cost millions of tax dollars and our borders are not sufficiently protected anyway and since so many come here illegally to get out from under the rule of Mexico City and since they are not assimiliating as other nationalities have done in the past (as a rule), why not make Mexico the 51st state? Or is that off topic?
     
  11. Squire Robertsson

    Squire Robertsson
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    LE: I guess you haven't heard about the Chinese Tongs. One of the most violent gangs is MS13 from El Salvador. Further, the Mexican border has always been an area of crime and violence. Today it's drugs. Yesterday, it was stolen cattle and alcohol. Me, I don't blame the Mexicans as much as I blame their enablers. They didn't and can't get their minds around the concept that the Mexican border can not be as demiliterized as the Canadian border. Though, with the money to be made in illegal drugs, I have no doubt that smugglers will just go North if the Southern border gets too hard for them.

    As for the assimilation problem, what do you expect when a country of origin is right door and in three of the four US time zones. Again, I blame a lot of the assimilation problem or rather the lack thereof on those American politicians who live on the dynamic of race\ethnic politics.
     
  12. LadyEagle

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    Well, I agree. If we made English the national language, that would have a unifying effect.

    As most things, I blame nearly all of the troubles we have in this country on the politicians, and those "men of the cloth" who seek to divide and conquer us, i.e., the race baiters, etc.

    I have mellowed in my views somewhat in old age. I find the Mexicans here for the most part (whether here legally or illegally, I cannot know for sure), to be hard workers. Very hard workers.

    What I have problems with are the radical Aztlan groups, La Raza, Che Guevara types, etc.
     

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