IRS and pastoral pay

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by Salty, Jan 26, 2013.

  1. Salty

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  2. Deacon

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    We have gotten large rebate checks for the past few years - get them while you can - it probably won't last too much longer!

    Rob
     
  3. OldRegular

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    My own personal opinion is that pastors should pay Income tax just like everyone else. I suppose certain claims for expenses are legitimate but it seems to me from reading the list there is much room for abuse.

    At one time pastors were able to separate their income into two packages, one for buying or renting a residence plus associated stuff, the other package treated as taxable income. I don't agree with that practice.

    Going further I believe that the Churches would be better off if the pastor had a full time job just like the common folks. This would eliminate the mega churches. I believe a Church should be sufficiently small that the congregation exists as a family. Mega churches remind me of the Federal Government. They just keep growing. Many people like to get lost in these huge congregations.

    The money that is wasted in building these huge campuses could be better spent providing an assisted living facility for the elderly to live.

    I have expressed this opinion before and I am sure it will get the same reception!
     
  4. Old Union Brother

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    I agree with OldRegular.

    Mat 22:18    But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites?
    Mat 22:19    Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny.
    Mat 22:20    And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription?
    Mat 22:21    They say unto him, Caesar's. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's; and unto God the things that are God's.
     
  5. annsni

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    Umm - pastors DO have a full time job just like the common folks. Oh wait - not all the common folks are called at 3 am to run to the hospital because an employee is in the hospital. Right!! Not all common folk have to give up their day off because of a wedding or a funeral or a need to counsel.

    My hubby worked less hours consulting and he made more than twice the money he makes now.
     
  6. Mexdeaf

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    Truth.

    Some people just don't understand what the Apostle Paul wrote in 1 Corinthians 9 and 1 Timothy 5:17,18.

    The laborer - whether he be plowman, plumber, or pastor - is worthy of his hire.
     
  7. Old Union Brother

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    Well....In the past two weeks I have participated,in 4 funerals several days went to the hospital to visit sick members and visited folks that are sick and shut in at home. Oh by the way did I mention that I have a job teaching school in a public high school. And I do get calls at 3:00 in the morning. No complaints from me and no monetary pay either for my duties as a minister. God pays me.
     
  8. OldRegular

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    I knew that but am thankful you said it!
     
  9. Mexdeaf

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    That is all well and good but you are robbing your church of the blessing of supporting you.

    I am bi-vo also. Paul was also- but even he said it was not God's plan. Even the Old Testament shows us that. God's people have an obligation to support those that minister to them.
     
  10. annsni

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    So you do not have a wife or children that you are raising?
     
  11. Old Union Brother

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    My children are grown and my wife travels with me.
     
  12. Monster

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    We're in a similar position, though not Pastoral. Full time ministry position, unpaid and therefore required to have a couple other jobs to support ourselves. We also have the "joy" of paying taxes through both paid positions. We barely eek out a living, are called out at all hours of the night and feel the strain and tension the "life" demands. We know a wise couple, with decades of service life under their belts that always spoke about it with the caveat that it (service) is never convenient and seldom easy. We wouldn't have it any other way.

    One HUGE issue that has reared its ugly head with full time Pastors claiming tax exemption status is what happens as they age into retirement. For many of them, they are facing little fiscal "security" after retirement, if they haven't made solid investments, they're looking at no Social Security and no Medicare, generally (I understand the Pandora's box issues these last two are but they still matter).

    When I hear full time Pastors justify the pay they receive by stating that, "In the secular world I'd get x-amount more." I say. "GO FOR IT! Get that job and give the extra hilariously to a local ministry in need." If they're unhappy with the pay they receive for ministry and feel undervalued they're most definitely in it for the wrong reasons. They're much more valuable out of the ministry, right?

    Did I mention that I've never been very popular in Christian circles?
     
  13. Old Union Brother

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    On these types of threads I am not very popular either. God bless you
     
  14. Monster

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    Right on brutha'!

    Speak the Truth in love! But when you do, learn to stop drop and roll or sans that, duck as many fiery arrows as possible. If it doesn't get you in shape (spiritual, physical or otherwise) it will at the very least keep you busy. :thumbsup:
     
  15. annsni

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    Hubby has paid into SS for many years (since he was 16 - and he became a pastor 10 years ago at 42) and so he didn't risk his SS. I believe, though, that he has to start paying into it again this year - I don't remember how that works. He's on top of it though with our business pastor.
     
  16. Monster

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    That's Praise God territory then and a smart move. Good on ya'!

    There are a million arguments pro and con about SS, taxes and the whole pyramid style system the US is trapped in, BUT it's the reality we're faced with. For the foreseeable, you will more likely than not be better off with it than without

    We know several Pastors who went down another road; late 60's to early 70's with Health Insurance payments that would make Warren Buffet blush.

    We serve a mighty God however, and He doesn't worry about this stuff as much as I do. Phew! :praying:
     
  17. Oldtimer

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    ??? :confused:

    What kind of insurance programs did those pastors have back then?

    Qualifier: From sometime in the early 80's until the mid 90's I administered group health insurance plans. -- bids, coverage specs, claims process, etc.

    During that time, premiums for what are today called "Cadallac" plans were fairly modest, in terms of business expense. That is, until the dot com bubble burst. Premium rates began to skyrocket, as insurance companies sought to recoup their investment losses in the electronic technology industries.

    Coupled with that, rose the demand for health insurance coverage of electives not directly related to accident or disease. Cosmetic surgery, birth control & gender orientation modification, additional tests to avoid malpractice lawsuits, counciling for minor emotional problems, and more. From my experience, this coverage has only come about well after the 60's & early 70's -- with a corresponding rise in health insurance premiums.

    Again, what kind of health insurance coverage was provided to pastors back then that would make Warren Buffet blush?
     
  18. Monster

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    I'm talking about age, not decade. So, they are currently aged into their 60's and 70's. They are facing health coverage premiums now that are astronomical. I work with a pastor's wife that has desperately been trying to move from a part time position to full time position, just for the extension of health coverage for her soon to be retiring hubby. He is ineligible for Medicare and SS due to a life of service and his tax exempt status throughout.

    I'm making no judgement call on the issue. I'm simply raising a point.

    And I'm no expert on the subject. I feel like I'm getting in somewhat over me head here and am trying to tread carefully. We have a lot of exposure to pastors and missionaries that are in this predicament and maybe it's just a regional issue but it's sadly, very prevalent.
     
  19. saturneptune

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    I basically agree, but how about a solution from this angle? All workers get a 25% tax credit? I believe we could spend the money more wisely than the thieves in office now.
     
  20. convicted1

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    :thumbsup:Amen :thumbsup:Brother Jeff :thumbsup: amen :thumbsup:
     

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