Featured IRS and pastoral pay

I apologize for mis-understanding the reference in your post.

Something in this thread keeps nagging at me. And, like you I have to walk carefully because it's an area where I have little knowledge with regards to compensation differences between those who are and who are not in the ministry.

From the time I first earned a paycheck in the mid-60's, I didn't have a choice, based on the sources of my income. Withholding was deducted from my checks. Even though, I would have preferred (once became mature enough in thinking) to want control of my own destiny/ROI from this standpoint.

Somewhere during this timeframe I became aware that some others could make a choice in what was deducted and/or where the deduction from their check was deposited. And, some avoided (tax cheats) paying anything into the system(s). -- Sorry for lumping all of these together, but a this point, don't know another way to express what I'm trying to say.

Today, at times, it's hard for me to have compassion for those who CHOSE not to pay into SS and Medicare for whatever reason. Those who chose to kept a higher percentage of their gross (pretax) income to be used as they saw fit.

Yes, insurance premiums are astronomical. I had to pay COBRA rates (103% of premium) for almost 3 years -- two qualifying events, in order to maintain health insurance coverage.

Question: If the pastor that you mentioned had chosen to pay the same taxes on his income that I had to pay on mine, would this woman be facing the same challenge today? This question applies equally to anyone, in any employment situation, that allowed them to put more of their income in their pockets over the years through their own CHOICES.

Perhaps lack of compassion isn't the right choice of words. Perhaps a better choice is anger at a system that allowed people to feel they were rewarded only to later, in life, have to face the penalities associated with those rewards. Doesn't matter if it's a pastor or the teacher I recently heard complaining about her plight at age 73. Or the two men I know, who through cash based business have never filed tax returns. Both of which are nearing the age they cannot continue to operate their business ventures. When/if either of the latter expect sympathy for their plights, I'll have to do some hard soul searching looking for beams and motes.

Perhaps, those far more knowlegable that I can answer this question. Is there an earthly penality for chosing not to render unto Ceasar, if he gives the option? Especially when Ceasar gives notice of future ramifications for not doing so?

Just nagging questions..............

 

My friend, I think I know what you are talking about. I was a pastor for years and it was all bi vocational and self employed owning a tractor trailer. So I paid what had to be paid to keep the government off my back. Most of my friends who worked for someone else are doing much better in retirement than I am, I just hope and pray they had the blessings and fun I've had along the way to retirement.
I believe all I've ever got from a church was a 1099( I hope that is it) showing what they had given me and no taxes of any kind taken out. In my trucking business it was about the same, but more money crossed the table or I would have been hurting.
I know I don't have what so many of our northern government workers have that have retired down here and I'm perfectly happy with what I have. And I'm so happy for them, but I must say at times it is hard to understand them complaining about their checks and many of them are more than I ever made in a month.
I have more than I can say grace over.

 

I opted out of SS when I was ordained 30-some years ago. It was what I was advised to do at the time. Since I have always been bi-vo except for 11 years when we were missionaries, I am already vested into SS.

I really don't waste a lot of time worrying about retirement. I do invest 10 percent of each check but when it really comes down to it all that anyone can really trust in is the promises of God. All else is just speculation.

 

No worries about any misunderstandings. They make conversations more interesting as far as I'm concerned, anyway.

There's so much meat to this post, I feel like I've just taken my fourth trip through a great buffet. I hardly know where to start but it'll have to suffice for me to say that I agree with all of your points, compassionate of otherwise.

- Like you, I had choice. I was self-employed for 20+ years. All of it in a cash-rich environment. I'm human and therefore a professional sinner, so I struggled with the yes and no issues surrounding taxes and evasion. I chose to pay, it was that or lose endless amounts of sleep to fear and worry and consideration of SS and my future. I'm comfortable with having paid, I'm fully vested and not yet in my fifties. The SS may not be there when I retire but that's out of my control, doing the right thing then and now wasn't/isn't.

- About that pastor and his wife, no she likely wouldn't be working full-time for the foreseeable. It's a sad circumstance, a life shared in service and they won't be able to spend retirement together for who knows how long. Whether they had bad advise in the ago or not, the consequences should've been clear to anyone with even a little financial acumen. That said, I sure wish I used more wisdom in my younger youth (I feel old these days but, ya' know). If I left off the 8-Tracks, Tapes, Albums, CD's and now, mp3s and limited out a 401k with the same money, I'd be able to retire. Silly me!

- Your last point is eloquently stated. I liken it to smoking, God used my Godly wife to help me stop decades ago. The similarity I'm taking forever to get to, like poor financial decisions while young, smokers tell themselves "It won't happen to me or that's so far off in the future or even, if it happens, I'll be so old it won't matter so much."

We're endlessly able to fool ourselves so convincingly aren't we? Thanks be to God that He knows us so well and offers us so many "outs" and "do-overs".

 

Right on!

I fall prey however to my preferences and concern for comfort. My great sin in this attitude is that I constantly lose sight and perspective of the God I'm supposed to be serving in all ways. I falsely assume that God's provision isn't going to be comfortable enough or to my liking. Oh wretched man that I am.

 

I do at times also brother. I doubt that anyone is immune.