IRS going after Baptist preacher

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Magnetic Poles, Feb 13, 2008.

  1. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    IRS investigating Baptist preacher for political endorsement. Preachers should stick to the gospel from the pulpit and save their political activism for personal time.

    CLICK HERE
     
  2. Danny Hurley

    Danny Hurley
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    Maybe the IRS wants whats Caesar's!
     
  3. Revmitchell

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    Churches hold a special tax exemption. Churches do not need to file for a tax exempt status. They are tax exempt just by being a church. While the average non-profit organization may lose their tax exempt status, churches cannot because they do not need to file for it.

    This has been tried and ruled on by the federal court of appeals in the district of Columbia. The churches tax exempt status in the op is quite secure.
     
  4. Magnetic Poles

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    Au contraire. Churches have indeed lost their tax exemptions when they stray from being churches and act as PACs.
     
  5. windcatcher

    windcatcher
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    The church is under Christ not under the government.
    A pastor is the undershepherd to the Great Shepherd of the sheep.

    The separation of church and state should mean the state has NO BUSINESS telling the church what to preach and what not to preach, who to uphold and who to abase:

    John the Baptist preached against Ceasar and the incestuous relationship with his brother's wife. If a Godly man is running against those who will not be led by God, then it is the pastors duty and right to encourage those who will hear his message to identify those of faith and those who exhibit no sincere witness within them in their acts and lifestyle.

    I hope the pastor wins his case.
    But I think he is up against more than mere man..... he is wrestling with the power behind the governments of man..... and I will uphold him in prayer and hope others will agree.
     
  6. Magnetic Poles

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    I say tax all churches and let them endorse whoever they please. If you wanna play in the game of government, you need to ante up.
     
  7. StefanM

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    A very consistent position. If you want the benefits, you have to abide by the rules. They aren't that difficult to understand.
     
  8. Revmitchell

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    Name one. No church has ever lost their tax exempt status.
     
  9. rbell

    rbell
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  10. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Google is your friend.

    CLICK HERE
     
  11. Revmitchell

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    USA Today has it incorrect.

    http://www.lc.org/resources/ChurchLossOfTaxExempt.html

    Losing a letter of tax exemption in no way endangers the churches tax exemption. The church has a special stauts under the IRS code and is not required to have a letter to be tax exempt.
     
  12. Revmitchell

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    The reports are wrong. This issue has been decided on the federal appeals level.
     
  13. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Interesting case here (from http://www.firstamendmentcenter.org/rel_liberty/establishment/topic.aspx?topic=tax_exemptions)

    Excerpt:
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]In 2000, the Washington, D.C., district court decided a case involving the loss of a church’s tax-exempt status. In Branch Ministries v. Rossotti, the church (then acting under the name “The Church at Pierce Creek”) ran a full-page ad in The Washington Times and USA TODAY. The ads warned Christians against voting for then-Gov. Bill Clinton of Arkansas because of his positions on a variety of issues. When the ads came to the attention of the IRS office, an investigation ensued. The IRS concluded that the church had violated the restrictions against campaigning and the church’s tax-exempt status was revoked.[/FONT]
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The church contested the sanctions, claiming violations of a number of its constitutional rights, including a free-exercise violation under the Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). The court analyzed the claims and found that, even under the far more stringent requirements of the compelling-interest test RFRA requires, the church had violated the statutory restrictions on campaigning and thus the IRS removal of exempt status would stand.[/FONT]
     
  14. Magnetic Poles

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  15. Revmitchell

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    What you did not provide was the judges comments on the case:

    "
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The Church at Pierce Creek had applied for and received a letter ruling. The IRS simply revoked the letter ruling and the Church sued to get it back. The Court noted that "because of the unique treatment churches receive under the Internal Revenue Code, the impact of the revocation is likely to be more symbolic than substantial."[/FONT]
    [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Indeed, the tax-exempt letter revocation is only symbolic and not substantive. During the oral argument, counsel for the IRS confirmed that if the Church chose not to intervene in future political campaigns, it may hold itself out as a 501(c)(3) organization and receive all of the benefits of that status. The Court wrote: "All that will have been lost is the advance assurance of deductibility in the event a donor should be audited." [/FONT]
     
  16. Revmitchell

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    I am not in support of nutballs. I am only speaking to the issue of church tax exemption.
     
  17. windcatcher

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    Churches are tax exempt:

    However, if a church files for tax exemption as a corporation under 501c3, they have submitted to the recognition by the state, and have submitted to conform to the authority of the state. A 501c3 is not necessary for tax exemption, and recognition by the state is not necessary for tax exemption: But once a church ACKNOWLEDGES the superiority of the laws of man over the governance of Christ, the church has acknowledge by their action the superiority and rule of Cesar and must be prepared to obey Cesar or defend their actions against the accusations of Cesar.

    While a church is tax exempt without being a corporation, its contributors and financial supporters are not.

    For their contributions to be tax deductible, the government requires that their taxable deduction is going to a recognized organization..... thus the 501c3.

    Do the accounting: The few people who have enough deductions to itemize are saving maybe 15-30% of taxes on the DIFFERENCE between their itemized deductions and what would have been their standard deduction. But, for the sake of a few dollars saved, many churches conform and submit to the government by becoming a 501c3 corporation, or run the risk of loosing their members ....... for lack of knowledge:

    The best defense this pastor has may be to persuade his flock to withdraw from the 501c3, and for those members who benefited from the meger tax savings by reducing their taxable income by their contributions..... to reduce their giving by that amount rather than sell out to the authority of government over the church.

    The people of Israel went to Samuel and wanted a king 'like the other nations'. Samuel took it before the LORD. God told Samuel that it was not Samuel that they had rejected but the LORD. Then God told Samuel to warn the people what a king would be like...... but that God would grant their desire. Without knowledge the people perish. No wonder our LORD repeated 'they know not what they do!"
     
  18. windcatcher

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    Entirely correct!
    But having ears they hear not,
    having eyes they see not,
    believing themselves to be whole,
    they perceive not that they are weak and wretched
    naked and poor
    In need of a physician and Savior.

    Revmitchell, in this case you've done your best.:thumbs: :praying: :tear:
     
  19. Alcott

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    Original post:

    Later:

    You seem to be having trouble making up your mind on what you want here, Maggie.
     
  20. Magnetic Poles

    Magnetic Poles
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    Not at all, Alchy. If we to by the current rules, let them stay out. Otherwise, pay up and play all day.
     

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