"IRS thug tactics" revisited

targus · Dec 18, 2009

I have started this thread so as not to hijack another one.

The following is in response to saturneptunes characterization of me as an "IRS apologist".

saturneptune said: ↑

Now, do you have anything else to say?
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Would the responses to this article and the actions taken by the IRS be different if it were learned that this person did significantly under report her income as they originally suspected?
After all she does work in a cash business where a large portion of one's income is in the form of cash tips.
Should she be able to declare her children as dependents if her parents are the ones actually providing for the majority of their needs?
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Do you disagree with this line of thinking?

OK, then the IRS should have had them all file amended returns with the parents claiming the deductions.
Do we know that this was not the case?
And that this woman and her parents were not simply stubborn and refused to do so?
Is it possible that her parents already were not paying any tax on their return and so it would have been of no additional benefit to them to declare the kids as their dependents?
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Can you state your specific problem with this statement?

Just happenstance that the IRS claimed that 13K was owed? Under $10K and the mother could have filed in IRS small claims court.

That depends on your local small claims court - here the limit is more like $2,000 - you are making too many broad stroke assumptions.
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Can you state your specific problem with this statement?

The action against he would be suspended, no lawyer would be needed, and she could have presented her case directly to an IRS lawyer. Been there, done that. Very interesting.
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Not my words - take it up with billwald

I was in private practice for over 20 years as a CPA and dealt with the IRS many many times on behalf of my clients. Not once was it ever necessary to go to any court.
If one behaves like a rational and polite person the IRS can be very reasonable to work with - without simply giving in to their position on a particular tax issue.
Some seem to be forgetting that it is Congress that writes the tax laws. The IRS is merely their collection and enforcement agency.
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What is your specific complaint with my personal experiences?

I am still curious...
Would each person's response to the OP be the same if it were found that this individual had understated her income as the IRS thought may have been the case when deciding to review her return?
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It is interesting that you do not answer this question.

Will you so answer now?

This woman filed a tax return that apparently did not pass muster on first look - so the IRS asked her to support her statements.
That would be the investigation of the evidence.
Apparently in that investigation it was found that her information as provided was not accurate.
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What is your specific complaint with this statement?

I have not taken any side here other than to ask questions.
As I see it this woman works at a job where much of one's income is in the form of tips.
People who earn tips can sometimes be tempted to under report their income.
The IRS compared her reported income with the local cost of living and asked her how she was able to make it on her relatively low level of reported income.
When she stated that she lives with her parents it became a natural question as to who is supporting and is thereby entitled to declare the kids as dependents.
If here parents are providing housing, utilites, food, etc to those kids then it is a matter of tax code regulations as to who gets the exemption for the kids.
If she took them as dependents when she in fact is not providing for the majority of their support then she is going to owe more tax.
What is the complaint here?
Why are you so in favor of this woman not paying taxes if she in deed owes them?
Why should you and I a whole lot of other people pay higher taxes just because some people decide that they don't want to pay what they owe?
I seriously don't get it.
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What is your specific complaint with the above?

What were the "thug like tactics" used by the IRS in the OP?
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Another question that you failed to answer. So what were the "thug like tactics"?

So you would have sided with Al Capone over the IRS?
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Another question that you did not answer.

Why are you reproducing all these unanswered questions which I psoed to you? It doesn't build your case in any way - but they do bolster mine.

I see no problem with the IRS.
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Not my words. Look at my post to you in response to this before.

Why do you again misrepresent me and ignore my actual statements in this regard?

Actually I am a CPA and have represented clients before the IRS for over twenty-five years.
Perhaps the difference between my experience with the IRS and yours is that I saw to it that my clients kept adequate records and that their returns were properly completed and filed.
Just a guess on my part
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How does this make me an apologist for the IRS?

Originally Posted by targus
Income tax returns are prepared from records - you don't just make the number up.
If your tax return is questioned it is a matter of producing the records to support your return.
Would you want the IRS to simply take every tax return at face value?
Isn't it better to have a system of accountability so that tax cheaters have to pay just like the rest of us?
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What is your specific complaint with the above?

Here is the link to the original story.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...6_danny06.html
Now, do you have anything else to say?
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Just that all of the quotes of mine from the other thread which you have recreated are reasonable and for the most part questions which you do not answer.

I get it - your particular mindset does not allow you to see anything from any other perspective than your own personal bias.

You could go a long way in convincing me that I am wrong by explaining how any of the above quotes of mine are unreasonable.

That and actually answering any of the above questions.

rbell · Dec 19, 2009

My point in the earlier IRS threads is that there are abuses. I've seen them firsthand.

And the problem is that the "guilty until proven innocent" approach used by the IRS, coupled with an incomprehensible tax code, and the lack of affordable options for regular citizens to deal with tax issues, make the climate way too ripe for taxpayers to get shafted.

There's no doubt: The ratio of power-hungry, abusive, or dishonest IRS agents probably mirrors that of most Federal government workers (higher than the private sector (since it's darn near impossible to fire the bad ones), but not shockingly high).

But oh, the damage a "bad apple" can do.

Are most problems between taxpayers and the IRS the IRS's fault? Nope, wouldn't say that.

But I also wouldn't say the opposite...that whenever you see an issue, it's always because of a careless or inattentive taxpayer.

Most of this would clean up with some tax code simplification..but that's not going to happen.

"IRS thug tactics" revisited

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"IRS thug tactics" revisited

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