Is a church by any other name still a church?

"What if they didn't like singing hymns?"

They don't and we don't

"What if they didn't like pianos?"

They don't, so we use guitars.

"What if they don't like the pastor wearing a suit and tie when he preached?"

They don't so I wear Jeans.

"What if they didn't like the fact that you received an offering?"

They don't, so our people know to leave theirs in the baskets that are on their tables. Oh yeah, you forgot to ask "What if they don't like sitting on mid-evil torture devices called pews?" They don't, so we have them sit at tables.

"What if preaching on hell offended them?"

After all that you finally hit on something that matters. While we desire to remove any and every barrier we possibly can in order to see people saved, the one barrier we cannot take away, nor would ever want to take away, is the Gospel itself. We preach the Gospel of Jesus as clearly as we can possibly make it. And while hell is not the focus of the Gospel, the doctrine can't be overlooked, and it's not.

You asked, "Since when does God's people allow the world to decide what is right and wrong?" The answer is never. But when you choose between a suit and a pair of jeans, you're not choosing between right and wrong. When you choose between pianos or guitars, you're not choosing between right and wrong. And I firmly and sincerely believe that if you are not willing to take off your suit to reach a lost man, then you don't love the lost man enough.

 

God's people decide for themselves what is acceptible. If they feel it acceptible to remove the denominational name from the marquee, then it's completely permissible for that congregation of God's people to do so.

 

What does wearing a suit have to do with reaching a lost man??----the suit isn't gonna save anyone---having jeans on instead of a suit isn't gonna save anyone. Wearing a suit or a pair of jeans doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I love the lost man enough. There will be a host of people who come into my services---see me preach with a suit on---refuse to repent and receive Jesus Christ as their savior and Lord---die--and spend their eternity in the Lake of Fire---but they'll go to the Lake of Fire not because I had a suit on---but because they refused to believe on the name of the only begotten Son of God. And the same way when you wear your jeans---wear your jeans, dude--I can't do nothing about that---just like you can't do nothing about my suits---but wearing either suits or jeans doesn't have a thing to do with the person repenting and receiving Jesus as Savior and Lord--

I mean can you imagine that person at the Great White Throne??

"Lord!! I refused to believe because the preacher offended me--he had a suit on!!!"

NO---I'm afraid not!!

 

mmm ... So what are you trying to say?

 

As I read about so many not placing Baptist or church on their sign out front, NBC is promoting a special this friday to tell us the "truth about Jesus".

I bet they ARE NOT afraid of telling a lie about Jesus. IMHO

 

mmm ... So what are you trying to say? </font>[/QUOTE]blackbird was arrogant.

 

mmm ... So what are you trying to say? </font>[/QUOTE]blackbird was arrogant. </font>[/QUOTE]No, I'm not!!! Its just that it baffles me how a dude on one hand has sense enough to hear me if I preach with jeans on---but on the other hand--he refuses to hear me if I preach with a suit on!! I mean, whats the difference---all along the theme is---it doesn't matter what you wear---its the message, right---now you guys are telling us that if a preacher gets up and preaches a particular message with jeans on---people will hear him---but if he preaches next week with a suit on instead--then he's a turn off???

Seems silly to me---how some will hear one preaching with jeans on---and won't hear the same one with a suit on!!

 

What does wearing a suit have to do with reaching a lost man??----the suit isn't gonna save anyone---having jeans on instead of a suit isn't gonna save anyone. Wearing a suit or a pair of jeans doesn't have anything to do with whether or not I love the lost man enough. There will be a host of people who come into my services---see me preach with a suit on---refuse to repent and receive Jesus Christ as their savior and Lord---die--and spend their eternity in the Lake of Fire---but they'll go to the Lake of Fire not because I had a suit on---but because they refused to believe on the name of the only begotten Son of God. And the same way when you wear your jeans---wear your jeans, dude--I can't do nothing about that---just like you can't do nothing about my suits---but wearing either suits or jeans doesn't have a thing to do with the person repenting and receiving Jesus as Savior and Lord--

I mean can you imagine that person at the Great White Throne??

"Lord!! I refused to believe because the preacher offended me--he had a suit on!!!"

NO---I'm afraid not!! </font>[/QUOTE]Blackbird,

I think we almost agree here. If you feel like you should preach in a suit, you'll never hear me try to convince you to do otherwise. I was responding to the idea that choosing between suits and jeans is choosing between right and wrong. I have no problem with people wearing suits. If you invited me to preach at your church, I would assume that suits are the custom and I'd put mine on. (I really do have a couple) It's the suits that seem to have a problem with me wearing jeans. It's not a matter of the lost refusing to believe because the preacher has a suit on. It's that the lost will never hear because they feel shut out.

In our town, there is a couple of churches that are your typical First Baptist type churches. Pretty much everyone that goes there dresses up big time. Nice suits and very nice dresses. I've mentioned here before, most of our people are recovering drug addicts. Most of them have never owned a suit in their life. In thier opinion, they would not be accepted at these other churches. They would definately stand out in the crowd and would be very uncomfortable. For that reason, they will not go there. Period. It doesn't matter if what they believe is true or not, it keeps them out of the church just the same.

So what I want to understand is this - If there are people who will not come to one of the churches where one of you suit and hymn guys are preaching, but I can put on a pair of jeans and pick up a guitar, preach the GOSPEL UNCOMPROMISED and see them commit their lives to Jesus Christ and begin to live a godly life - why does that tick you guys off so much? I really don't get it.

 

mmm ... So what are you trying to say? </font>[/QUOTE]blackbird was arrogant. </font>[/QUOTE]No, I'm not!!! Its just that it baffles me how a dude on one hand has sense enough to hear me if I preach with jeans on---but on the other hand--he refuses to hear me if I preach with a suit on!! I mean, whats the difference---all along the theme is---it doesn't matter what you wear---its the message, right---now you guys are telling us that if a preacher gets up and preaches a particular message with jeans on---people will hear him---but if he preaches next week with a suit on instead--then he's a turn off???

Seems silly to me---how some will hear one preaching with jeans on---and won't hear the same one with a suit on!! </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure where I mentioned jeans and suits. I wear jeans to church and my dad wears a suit.

It was arrogant of you to call "wimp" those who exclude the name church from their name when you have no knowledge of why they do.

 

GOSPEL UNCOMPROMISED-----Bingo!!!

You preach the gospel uncompromised in your jeans---I can, too!! Done it before!!

But at the same time---I preach the gospel uncompromised in a suit!! And you can, too!! You've done it before!!

But what I'm hearing is this----the gospel cannot be preached uncompromised with a suit on!! That's how its comeing across to me--but maybe thats just me!!

My folks here??? I believe it can be an "either/or" situation----if I go to church next Sunday with jeans on---and preach---they'll hear me----if I show up with a suit on---they'll hear me----my suit wearing people will hear you whether you have a suit on---or whether you're wearing jeans!! Makes no difference to them!! My jean wearing people will hear you with your jeans on---and they'll hear you with a suit on---makes no difference to them!!

 

I don't think you're hearing that from me, bro. If you're preaching the word and folks are getting saved, I don't care if you're wearing a tutu. (Well, that might be a stretch, not sure if a dude named blackbird would have the legs for that ) I said earlier in this thread, "Viva-la-difference" I preach in a contemporary church in jeans because no one else here is doing that. There are about 15 churches that feature suits and pianos and hymns and all the other traditional church stuff. If they all changed to become like me, then I'd have to go back to suits and traditions to fill the void that would be left. It's all about seeing people saved, and the fact is, the more hooks you put in the water the more fish you're gonna catch.

That's funny - you think I'm trying to tell you that you have to be like me, and I think you're trying to tell me that I have to become like you. And to think we're both called to be communicators. Peace Bro.

 

I don't think you're hearing that from me, bro. If you're preaching the word and folks are getting saved, I don't care if you're wearing a tutu. (Well, that might be a stretch, not sure if a dude named blackbird would have the legs for that ) I said earlier in this thread, "Viva-la-difference" I preach in a contemporary church in jeans because no one else here is doing that. There are about 15 churches that feature suits and pianos and hymns and all the other traditional church stuff. If they all changed to become like me, then I'd have to go back to suits and traditions to fill the void that would be left. It's all about seeing people saved, and the fact is, the more hooks you put in the water the more fish you're gonna catch.

That's funny - you think I'm trying to tell you that you have to be like me, and I think you're trying to tell me that I have to become like you. And to think we're both called to be communicators. Peace Bro. </font>[/QUOTE]Peace, Bro!!!

 

Some stand behind a name and use that as an excuse but do not stand up to be counted among God's people in the real world at their jobs and with their neighbors.

 

This statement leaves out the leading of the Holy Spirit. Jesus didn't try to hide who He was... yet sinners were drawn to Him.

 

1. The leading of the Spirit is assumed.

2. No one is suggesting we are ashamed. That is not the point.

3. Jesus was not a Baptist.

 

Took you guys long enough . . .

Peace, Bro!!!

 

every one
It's been interesting to read every body's posts and replies. Well I don't think it matters whether the Pastor is in casual dress or suit, here in Canada lots dress casual (not jeans) and wear a tie. Here at Peachland Baptist our Pastor wears a suit, but then it's a senior church with mostly seniors.
One Sunday in summer 4 teen girls and a younger woman came to our church not dressed very appropriately for church, had too much skin showing even belly buttons, it didn't look like they felt embarrassed at all they heard the gospel being preached

 

"Jesus was not a Baptist"
Yet He was "baptized" by John--The Baptist.

Nor was He a "Christian"
Yet He is the Christ, the Son of the Living God.

For the record: Jesus IS God in the flesh--who came into this world to die for His lost sheep.
Jesus did exactly that; and He ever lives to make intercession.

As a living testimony and witness, in this wicked and perverse generation, Jesus is building an "assembly" of believers who are called to be witnesses(martyrs) of The Truth.

These assemblies have been in every generation since the first one was gathered on the shores of Galilee, nearly two thousand years ago.

How does one find "the Pillar and Ground of the Truth" using the Yellow Pages of Houston, Texas, for instance? No creo que si!

The name does not reveal much about "The Faith and Practice"--unless one knows about Jude 3.

There is one question which seriously reduces the number of possibilities: Are you a Baptist who is not a Protestant? If the answer is yes, two more questions will narrow the field to just a "remnant": What is scriptural baptism and closed communion? To be sure, these are Baptistic questions.

Will the word "Baptist" be in the names of assemblies who believe such things? You decide.

Selah,

Bro. James