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Is America Really Free

Discussion in 'Political Debate & Discussion' started by poncho, Jul 5, 2010.

  1. targus

    targus New Member

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    And still no list of actual freedoms being denied to Poncho !!!:laugh:

    And yet you want to be taken seriously!
     
  2. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell Well-Known Member
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    If you don't want to explain it then why are you trying to debate it.
     
  3. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    What's there to explain Rev? The government ignores and subverts the constitution of the United States every chance it gets and you fellas have to ask what freedoms we have lost??? That's so totally unreal! I cannot even begin to fathom how anyone could claim this country is free in the face of that let alone that we have one of if not the largest prison populations on the planet.

    Okay let me spell it out.

    We have lost our right as a nation to self determination and good governance. We have a pack of unelected private bankers in charge of our (the consolidated global) economy and monetary system who informs congress and the American people we don't even have a right to know how our wealth is being used, where it goes or to whom it's going.

    That is not freedom, that's servitude. Rationalize it anyway you want. But it'll only be servitude with a "relative" candy coating.

    So long as this country has an unelected parasitical elite who control the levers of power through the creation and manipulation of fiat currency and a debt based economy we will never be free.

    What is so hard to understand about that?

    I find it incredible that I have to explain this to fellow Americans while they sit there in the twilight zone going wha wha wha? You guys should know all this already. I shouldn't have to explain it.
     
    #43 poncho, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2010
  4. targus

    targus New Member

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    No we have not.

    We are still free to vote for whomever we wish.


    People with money are using their money to get what they want.

    It has always been that way and will never be any different.

    Well you may be subserviant to them - but I am not.

    Could it have something to do with personal choice?

    Blah blah blah.

    When I was in college the kids who fancied themselves smart and cool read the Worker's Daily or whatever the communist rag was called.

    You are just reading a different set of tripe - and allowing it to cause you to think that you have it all figured out and that you are so much smarter than everyone else.

    But obviously you don't or you would be able to construct a sentence something like....

    "I have lost the freedom to (fill in the blank)."

    Still waiting for a specific list.
     
  5. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    Targus, this is all I need to show how much you don't understand.

    :laugh:

    This is so far removed from reality it's not funny. You are "free" to vote for a handpicked puppet of the elite in national elections. Period.

    Get it? I didn't think so.

    Likely as not you'll never get it until you and your family are begging crumbs in the street. Fat and "relatively" happy cats, are indeed complacent cats.

    Thank God there is a mass awakening going on in this old world. One apparently you aren't part of or ready for.

    How do I know this to be true? Simple.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZyo9HRGeWw&feature=player_embedded

    I got it right from the horse's mouth.

    What's obvious here Targus is you don't understand fractional reserve banking at all. I don't have enough time to explain it to you and you probably wouldn't get it if I did. Let me just say there are plenty of books out there that can explain it.

    Here's just one. The Creature From jekyll Island. I suggest you take some time out of your "relative" existance and read it.

    In the meantime you might enjoy viewing this video. But probably not as it confirms everything I've been saying.

    Another thing that is painfully obvious is that you don't even care what happens to this country and the people in it so long as you remain "relatively" fat and happy.

    Tell ya what, just this once.

    I'll be ashamed for you so you need not disturb your "relative" happiness.
     
    #45 poncho, Jul 12, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2010
  6. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Freedoms - right wingers want to quit paying taxes. Left wingers want to smoke dope. Libertarians want to quit paying taxes and smoke dope.
     
  7. targus

    targus New Member

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    What freedom have you lost due to the fiat money system?

    Just name one - I challenge you.
     
  8. targus

    targus New Member

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  9. Eric B

    Eric B Active Member
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    While I disagree with what I see as the typical conservative methods of equating of fighting for personal freedoms with God, as if His commission to us is self-protection; as well as calling people "parasites"; still, I think Poncho is more onto something by pointing to the global bankers and fiat money system. I have been so distressed by the way so many other conservatives focus only on domestic liberals, taxes and social programs as if that was where ALL the money is going, with some imaginary "grasshoppers" blamed, and corporate CEO's angrily defended as "deserving" ALL of the exorbitant income they get (even as the companies and economy crash), because of "the market".
    But I would say even that is likely tied to the fiat system and banks. (and you figure many of these companies are global anyway). That's probably what's controlling this "market" that determines what people are ''worth".
    (Here, BTW, FTR, is the 1994 original UNEDITED version of the Grasshopper story by its author. http://www.warroom.com/antgh.php should have searched for it before).

    We had what was it; a trillion dollar deficit, and then overnight it became a surplus for a few years, and then it crashed and became a deficit again, in the current crunch. That obviously is not real money they're talking about, but just imaginary numbers on a computer. People can manipulte them any way they want, yet it's only liberal US Democrats who are accused of some "wealth redistribution" scheme that some "undeserving" poor are supposedly making off with! That then, is what gets the attention, and is even reformed, yet people still complain.

    I know some conservative Christians push for a return to the gold standard. I wonder what the drawback of that would be. Never heard whatever different sides there are to that.
    But look at it; even the Republicans many of you here are unhappy with. The Reps even had the entire govt. for a few years, and by that time, the claim was that they were virtual Democrats or liberals. People then began pushing for radicals like Peroutka (Constitution Party), but that did not catch on. Buchanan looked like he had a better chance, and he gave up as well.

    So I think we do have to look to something bigger than this nation as pulling the strings. No matter what, the direction of politics is clearly morally AND fiscally liberal; economically conservative (as far as divide between super rich and everyone else).

    While I'm not sure what exactly Poncho is calling us to do; (take up arms like his avatar?) I think that one one hand, we can be thankful for the freedoms we still have, but on the other hand, we can still be more alert and challenge the status quo and also expand our focus of the blame beyond the narrow area I have seen the conservatives focusing it. Once a broader awareness is created, then it would become more clear what action should be taken. Like who really should be voted for that would have the best impact, or whatever else could be done. It's like the Serenity Prayer (which includes "...change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference") is what would be good here.
    I had noticed a double standard, that when bashing the liberals, people act like everthing is horrible; and all their freedoms have been taken, but then when defending against someone showing them any different perspective, they become defensive and suddenly things are great as they are.
     
    #49 Eric B, Jul 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2010
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Shall we wait then together?

    Here are some rights I used to have but have been taken from me:

    1. The right to burn the leaves from my tree
    2. The right to personally examine the city dump for goodies
    3. The right to take my pocket knife and pepper spray to school
    4. The right to smoke most anywhere (ever been to a smoking church? :)
    5. The right to go into a school which is in lockdown
    6. The right to enter the north part of Moore Oklahoma
    (right was gone, 3 May 1999 until about July 2000. Yes, it was shut down and belonged to FEMA with Moore Police manning the checkpoints, after the Tornado that killed 60 Moore people)

    anybody want to think of some more missing rights?
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Oh, I might mention, in the Oct 2008 Google Earth pictures, the track of the 3 May 1999 F5 Tornado in South Oklahoma County was still visable:

    1. Dirt is lighter than sod (sod got ripped out of the Tornado track at places a 1/2 mile wide swath).
    2. a cement slab base of a house is lighter than the roof ( about 1/3 of the houses were not rebuilt)
    3. grass is lighter than trees
     
    #51 Ed Edwards, Jul 13, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2010
  12. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    >1. The right to burn the leaves from my tree
    >2. The right to personally examine the city dump for goodies
    >3. The right to take my pocket knife and pepper spray to school
    >4. The right to smoke most anywhere (ever been to a smoking church? :)
    >5. The right to go into a school which is in lockdown

    See? God is still interested in the US. Satan would be pleased if you still had those "rights."
     
  13. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Yes, America is really free

    else most every person on this list would be in a gulag.

    But say the world IS run by a few hundred elitists. The John Birch Society has been preaching this since 1960, 50 years, and the flow of assets from the American working class to the Swiss banks has not slowed even a little. What is your program to reverse the situation? What are the first three steps . . . ones the JBS has not tried for 50 years.
     
  14. targus

    targus New Member

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    Not sure if you are serious with this list...

    1. The right to burn the leaves from my tree

    You can't burn tires either - should we have that right?

    2. The right to personally examine the city dump for goodies

    We can't trespass on many other properties not owned by us - should we have that right?

    3. The right to take my pocket knife and pepper spray to school

    Students can't take guns, blackjacks, or brass knuckles to school either - should they have those rights?

    4. The right to smoke most anywhere (ever been to a smoking church? :)

    IMO - this should be left up to the building owner.

    5. The right to go into a school which is in lockdown

    Theives, kidnappers and molesters want in to the school building too - should they have that right too?

    6. The right to enter the north part of Moore Oklahoma
    (right was gone, 3 May 1999 until about July 2000. Yes, it was shut down and belonged to FEMA with Moore Police manning the checkpoints, after the Tornado that killed 60 Moore people)

    Buildings burn down - should you have the right to enter those too?

    My point being that there are obvious reasons for these limitations which you list. Should everyone be allowed to do whatever they want - with no consideration for the rights and safety of others?
     
  15. windcatcher

    windcatcher New Member

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    How is freedom being denied?

    I should be able to own a pet and choose to get it vacinated w/o having to buy a license (permission) or coerced into getting it neutered by fines and penalties.

    I should be free to travel the roads as long as I obey the traffic laws and don't put others at risk by my recklessness or inadequacies or accidents.... without a license (permission).

    I should be able to own and possess a car in full title w/o repeated fees or taxes for tags (annual permissions) and it should be recognized as my possession by the state once it is registered until such time as I convey the title to others and transfer documentation of ownership on record.

    If I've completed my education in a field or profession.... my ability to practice should be based on my ability to serve and render great care and reputation and not on a license (permission). After all, accredited schools SHOULD not pass a student if that student can't demonstrate compantencies... and holding a license doesn't prove or disprove that.

    If I wish to throw up a shack on my own property and live in it.... it should be my business and my problem to assume all liabilities.... not dependent on codes or permits or inspections.... provided the land was unencumbered by contracts at the time I took possession. The only thing I should owe others does not exist until I choose to convey the land and its attachments and then I should honestly represent the standards or lack of in its 'improvements'.

    Unless I've bought into a restricted area or under agreement for certain conformity..... it should be my freedom to choose if I want a lavishly landscaped yard, a wild kingdom, or a sandy beach all around my home.

    To be openly armed should be my choice as long as I've not threatened or intimidated others while in open possession nor committed a crime.

    It should be my business what I grow in my garden, what I raise and slaughter for food, and how I chose to prepare it or store it.... as long as it is for my consumption only. If I wanted to distill alcohol, wine, or beer (not that I condone this) it should be my right as long as I'm the consumer, no sales are involved, and if others partake by choice and at their own risks.

    i should have the right to limit access on my property to whomever I want and restrict whomever I want.... unless there's a warrant with reasonable cause apparent.

    I should have the right to equal protection under the law and equal rights of expression w/o regard to my religion, my politics, my race.

    I should have the right to accept responsibility to insure or not and own my own liabilities and assume risks.

    I should have the right to choose my own level of medical care, whether to insure (with perhaps limitations in the contract which I agree to) or not. My freedom to associate with others should not be dependent on whether my shots are up-to-date, or whether I might catch something.... but rather on whether I'm infectious to others.

    Parents should have the right to be informed and to opt out of offensive programs in school for their children which go beyond the basics.

    Marriages and contracts should be civilly recordable based upon an oath or affadavit w/o a license (permisssion).

    On my property, I should have the right to chose and use whatever minerals, or products I can produce and exchange in free enterprise w/o government regulations extending beyond the safety concerns for the consumer or those whom I employ.

    I should have the right to quiet enjoyment, use, and joy of choosing distribution, of those possessions and abilities God has given for my benefit regarding my homestead w/o fear of dispossession due to taxes.

    I should have the right to possess and keep in my possession and privacy and to know and chose to whom I release information regarding correspondence, Internet, telephone communications, medical, financial and any other information related to me and my privacy.

    I have the right to defend my self, my family or any person under 'my protection' from physical harm or loss of property with whatever force is necessary (the key here is what is 'necessary' vs a misjudgement as to what is excessive').

    Unless there exist a real reason for suspicion or evidence of crime.... I have the right not to be detained.... and if ever detained for any reason to be informed.

    I have the responsibility to be honest in communications with others and the right to expect honesty in communications from others.

    I have the right to agree or disagree with government, policy, or neighbors...... and to assume the risk of being ostracized and avoided if thought obnoxious or worse... as long as I neither intrude into their peace or pose a real or intent to harm through violence or libel.

    Authorities have the right to expect respect and polite compliance for all reasonable request of me..... and I have the right to determine what is reasonable and what is not and take the risks if I choose unwisely in picking my battles.

    Now, tell me please, where do my rights infringe upon the rights of others?
    (None of them infringe upon others w/o a 'but what if....")

    Yet government has its restrictions and intrusions into various areas of these rights, which I consider as reasonable.
     
  16. billwald

    billwald New Member

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    Every city and town . . . and county has a social contract called the municipal code in the case of towns and cities. If you don't like the social contract you are free to move and take your portable assets with you. That is one of your major freedoms.
     
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    I am not free to sell my Condo.
    Nobody is buying. It has about 1K sq.ft
     
  18. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

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    Targus: || Not sure if you are serious with this list... ||

    I was serious. But I did pick thinks I have done before which I am not free to do now. It was not the Secret World Dominating Conspirators who took these rights from me. The most likely source of denial of my rights seem to be more and more people on earth.
     
  19. FR7 Baptist

    FR7 Baptist Active Member

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    You're removed from reality. There were at least nine presidential candidates on my ballot in 2008, plus a write-in option. I was free to vote for any one of them with a secret ballot without fear of reprisal.
     
  20. poncho

    poncho Well-Known Member

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    No, actually reality is something that doesn't get much coverage by the elite owned conglomerate media, so you just don't get to see it. It's not so much that I'm "removed" from it as you probably had very limited contact with it yourself. Most likely you wouldn't recognize it if you did.

    If that sounds like a put down it isn't. You can vote for who ever you like but the only one's allowed to win are the ones who will be loyal to the global power elite. PERIOD! Has nothing to do with the left vs right or democrats vs republicans. Like you all go and on and on about all day every day like a bunch of school kids arguing over which bubble gum tastes better.

    It's more like Americans vs globalists. The globalists have infested both parties. You can choose between them alright but you still end up with a globalist.

    You and I don't even register on their scales. Until it's time to rob us or grab more centralized power over us.

    Yeah, sounds crazy with me telling it I know. So how about hearing it from a couple of the elite's major minnions?

    This was written in 1928 by a man named Edward Bernays. The father of modern propaganda. Google him. Learn about him. He was a very busy man. The Nazi's used his "new" aproach to propaganda and look what they did to their population.

    So, now it's been how many years? All this time the elite have been perfecting this ability of their's to control our minds and with all the new technologies and advances in science and what not we've become a nation of mind washed idiots (no offense meant) that love big government and will put up with just about anything our government demands so long as we're scared, demoralized or dumbed down enough.

    The ‘Technological Revolution’ (or ‘Technetronic’ Revolution, as Brzezinski termed it in 1970) involves two major geopolitical developments. The first is that as technology advances, systems of mass communication rapidly accelerate, and the world’s people are able to engage in instant communication with one another and gain access to information from around the world. In it, lies the potential – and ultimately a central source – of a massive global political awakening. Simultaneously, the Technological Revolution has allowed elites to redirect and control society in ways never before imagined, ultimately culminating in a global scientific dictatorship, as many have warned of since the early decades of the 20th century. The potential for controlling the masses has never been so great, as science unleashes the power of genetics, biometrics, surveillance, and new forms of modern eugenics; implemented by a scientific elite equipped with systems of psycho-social control (the use of psychology in controlling the masses).


    See what I mean???

    But now, things are begining to change. So says top NWO minnion Zbigniew Brzezinski. BTW, I've followed his career and read his books . . . have you?

    Here's what he has to say about this “Global Political Awakening” which apparently you and our good friend Targus along with the majority of posters on BB are not a part of, yet.

    What is the “Global Political Awakening”?

    To answer this question, it is best to let Zbigniew Brzezinski speak for himself, since it is his term. In 2009, Zbigniew Brzezinski published an article based on a speech he delivered to the London-based Chatham House in their academic journal, International Affairs. Chatham House, formerly the Royal Institute of International Relations, is the British counterpart to the US-based Council on Foreign Relations, both of which were founded in 1921 as “Sister Institutes” to coordinate Anglo-American foreign policy. His article, “Major foreign policy challenges for the next US President,” aptly analyzes the major geopolitical challenges for the Obama administration in leading the global hegemonic state at this critical juncture. Brzezinski refers to the ‘global political awakening’ as “a truly transformative event on the global scene,” since:

    For the first time in human history almost all of humanity is politically activated, politically conscious and politically interactive. There are only a few pockets of humanity left in the remotest corners of the world that are not politically alert and engaged with the political turmoil and stirrings that are so widespread today around the world. The resulting global political activism is generating a surge in the quest for personal dignity, cultural respect and economic opportunity in a world painfully scarred by memories of centuries-long alien colonial or imperial domination.

    Furthermore . . .

    Brzezinski, expanding upon notions of social control, such as those propagated by Edward Bernays, wrote that, “Human conduct, some argue, can be predetermined and subjected to deliberate control,” and he quoted an “experimenter in intelligence control” who asserted that, “I foresee the time when we shall have the means and therefore, inevitably, the temptation to manipulate the behaviour and intellectual functioning of all the people through environmental and biochemical manipulation of the brain.”

    Brzezinski, in a telling exposé of his astute powers of observation and ability to identify major global trends, wrote that we are “witnessing the emergence of transnational elites” who are “composed of international businessmen, scholars, professional men, and public officials. The ties of these new elites cut across national boundaries, their perspectives are not confined by national traditions, and their interests are more functional than national.” Further, writes Brzezinski, “it is likely that before long the social elites of most of the more advanced countries will be highly internationalist or globalist in spirit and outlook.” However, warns Brzezinski, this increasing internationalization of elites “could create a dangerous gap between them and the politically activated masses, whose ‘nativism’ – exploited by more nationalist political leaders – could work against the ‘cosmopolitan’ elites.”[19] Brzezinski also wrote about “the gradual appearance of a more controlled and directed society,” in the “technetronic revolution;” explaining:

    Such a society would be dominated by an elite whose claim to political power would rest on allegedly superior scientific know-how. Unhindered by the restraints of traditional liberal values, this elite would not hesitate to achieve its political ends by using the latest modern techniques for influencing public behavior and keeping society under close surveillance and control. Under such circumstances, the scientific and technological momentum of the country would not be reversed but would actually feed on the situation it exploits.[20]

    Further, writes Brzezinski, “Persisting social crisis, the emergence of a charismatic personality, and the exploitation of mass media to obtain public confidence would be the steppingstones in the piecemeal transformation of the United States into a highly controlled society.” Elaborating, Brzezinski writes, “The traditionally democratic American society could, because of its fascination with technical efficiency, become an extremely controlled society, and its humane and individualistic qualities would thereby be lost.”

    <snip>

    Conclusion


    This new reality in the world, coupled with the fact that the world’s population has never been so vast, presents a challenge to elites seeking to dominate people all over the world who are aware and awakened to the realities of social inequality, war, poverty, exploitation, disrespect, imperialism and domination. This directly implies that these populations will be significantly more challenging to control: economically, politically, socially, psychologically and spiritually. Thus, from the point of view of the global oligarchy, the only method of imposing order and control – on this unique and historical human condition – is through the organized chaos of economic crises, war, and the rapid expansion and institutionalization of a global scientific dictatorship. Our hope is their fear; and our greatest fear is their only hope.

    As Charles Dickens once wrote, “It was the best of times, it was the worst of times.” That has never been so true as it is today.

    SOURCE

    Anyway, Targus asked me which freedoms we've lost. Well, for one we've lost the most important freedom we ever had. The freedom to think for ourselves. Everything after that is rather moot.

    Maybe next time before you jump on me for "being removed from reality" you should find out what reality actually is first. You might just find out you're the one who's been removed from it. Wouldn't that be a shocker? :smilewinkgrin:
     
    #60 poncho, Jul 23, 2010
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 23, 2010
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