Is anyone here who is familiar with the Jewish New Testament from David H. Stern?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by xdisciplex, Aug 16, 2006.

  1. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    I have the german version of it. I never looked into it but now I took some time and looked into it and read the first few pages where Stern explains a few things which are absolutely astonishing and go against everything which I have heard before. If he is right then a lot of the things which we hear at our church are wrong! :eek::eek:

    He says that the jewish new testament differs in some places from the other new testament translations and this has huge consequences.
    He answeres a few questions in his book such as:

    Has Jesus fulfilled the Torah?

    He says the greek word in Matthew 5:17 is "plerosia" which means to fill. But most translations translate it with fulfill. This leads them to the conclusion that Jesus fulfilled all prophecies of the Tenach, which relate to the Jews and that he also kept the whole Torah without any exceptions, so that nobody has to keep the laws of the Torah anymore.
    Then Stern goes on to say that this is a contradiction to what Jesus himself said because he said he came not to abolish the Torah.
    He says that the jewish translation doesn't translate "plerosia" with fulfill but rather with fill up, so that everybody knows exactly, what being obedient towards God requires.
    Stern goes on to say that this also fits together with the jewish tradition which says that when Jesus comes he'll explain the "dark" passages of the Torah and change them.

    Is the Messiah the end of the torah or her goal?

    Stern says that in nearly all translations Romans 10:4 is translated like this:

    "Christ is the end of the of the law, whoever believes in him is righteous."

    But Stern says that the greek "telos" means as much as purpose and not abolition. This means that the Messiah is not the end of the Torah. He says it's much more the way which the jewish new testament translates it which says that the goal of the Torah is the Messiah who offers righteousness to everyone who has faith. And then Stern says that this is also what Paul means in the passage from Romans 9:30-10,13.

    Stern also says that the new testament is a new torah!

    Another question which he answers is this one:

    Is the Torah legalistic?

    The greek phrase "erga nomou" and "hypo nomon" was used by Paul in Romans, Galatians and 1. Corinthians. It is usually translated with "works of the law" and this leads the reader to think that it the keeping of the Torah is to be avoided and that living according to the Torah is something negative. But the jewish new testament follows the interpretation of Cranfield and doesn't think that this phrase is related to the Torah but instead it's related to the legalistic distortion through the people.
    Because of this "erga nomou" is translated with "meticulous keeping of the laws of the Torah" and "hypo nomon" is translated with something like "in submission to the system which developes out of the distortion of the Torah which leads to legalism".
    From this the reader can conclude that any kind of legalism (christian,jewish or any other kind of legalism) is negative and that a life according to the Torah is good.


    What do you think about this? This stuff really confuses me. I mean what if he's right then huge parts of our theology are wrong because of having wrong bibles. Why should God allow this? This would mean that the ONLY correct new testament is the jewish new testament and unless you have this jewish new testament you can directly forget it.
    And what does this mean for us now? Does this mean that all the rules from the Torah are still valid and have to be kept? :eek::eek:
    Does this mean that women are unclean for example during their days and mustn't touch anyone and that pork is still forbidden and that he have to follow all these hundreds of rules? I thought that Jesus had come to give us freedom but if Stern is correct then we're still bound to all these rules.
     
  2. gekko

    gekko
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    i agree with the guy. do you have a link?

    then Romans 14 comes into play.

    wether we eat pork or not - its not going to affect ones salvation. whether a woman stays secluded from people on her days - its not a matter of salvation. they're just choices made in life.

    the ten commandments were written in stone - not "thou shalt not eat swine"

    i believe a jewish perspective on the scriptures is a must for all of us.
     
  3. xdisciplex

    xdisciplex
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    No, I have no link. I translated this stuff from my german version of it.
    But if it interests you then you can simply buy a Jewish New Testament from Stern.

    But I don't know what this means for us. Does this mean that God likes it when we, as christians, try to obey the Torah and try to act like jews? :confused:
    And I also don't understand why God would allow something like this to happen. This would mean that the whole theology of our western church is based on translations which are not correct!?
    If we cannot even rely on our bibles anymore then why don't we throw them away and party? I mean seriously, where is the sense of trying to figure out what a verse might mean if you cannot even be sure that the translation even reflects the real meaning of it? Then everything becomes so absolutely senseless. This is like seeking for a needle in a haycock and you don't even know if the needle is even in there. :tear:
     
  4. genesis12

    genesis12
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    I have a New Testament written by William J. Morford after he studied Hebrew thought. He translated from Greek, but inserted what words "really meant" after learning Hebrew and studying with some Rabbis. He makes the same blunder that Stern makes: He applies messages to and about the Jews to Christians.

    In Matthew 5:17 Jesus is speaking strictly to Jews. In Romans 10:4 Paul is talking about the Jews, while addressing a Christian audience. The Good News for Christians ends at Romans 8:39, and picks up again at Romans 12:1. When reading for yourself, as a Christian, after reading Romans 8:39, skip directly to Romans 12:1, especially in the KJV. The conclusion reached in 11:36 is picked up by the "Therefore" in 12:1. The former fits perfectly into the latter. (You can later go back and read about his grief for his fellow Jews in Romans 9:1 through 11:36, which is appropriately titled, "The Jewish Interlude.")

    Have you ever given a lecture and digressed? I certainly have. In this case, however, the "digression" is there for a specific purpose. Many of those in his audience were formerly engrossed in the traditions of Judaism, blindly following their Rabbis, who gave them 613 rules and 1,000 commandments to live by ~ folks who had little understanding of what the Hebrew Bible actually contained. How far they had wandered from God's Truth! Thank God that today, in the church age, we live and move and have our being in Jesus Christ and Him alone.

    The error that Stern and Morford make is to apply the Kingdom message to the Jews to Christians (Matthew 15:24). When the Jews rejected the Kingdom offer of Jesus, He put them on hold, and called Paul to minister to non-Jews. He gives information and instructions to His Jewish followers in Matthew 10:1-17, Matthew 15:3, John 18:36 (in the latter His Jewish Kingdom comes after the Great Tribulation, after Armageddon. The church age ended with the rapture; now the promise of the Kingdom for the Jews in their 1,000 year reign on earth is taken off hold ~ it is restored.)

    No knowledgeable Christian denies the efficacy of knowing about our Jewish roots. However, some Christians go so far as to identify with Jews over Christians. I attended a seminar where the Christian speaker, formerly a Pastor, had become so enamored with the Jews that he was harshly critical of Christianity. He wore the robes of a Jewish Rabbi when he gave his lectures. He blamed all earth's ills on us. He cited Hitler as an example of a Christian. He blamed "Christianity" for the crusades, unable to distinguish between authentic, born-again Believers and Catholic blasphemers / heretics, not separating those who surrender to Christ from those who had a pope or bishop or priest shove it down their throats. I challenged him in the midst of the seminar, and sent him an E-Mail message following, pointing out the grievous errors he had slipped into. I deleted that E-Mail during "housecleaning" the other day ~~ now I wish I had it to send to you.

    In any event, take Stern and Morford out of your understanding of the Covenant God has made with Christendom. Separate the Kingdom Promise for the Jews from the saving grace of Jesus Christ our Lord for all who believe and follow Him! Trust HIM and obey, for there is no other way!

    Celebrate the fact that one day, hopefully soon, the church will exit this mudball! Weep for those who reject Christ of Christendom, the Jewish Messiah, who will subsequently be deceived by antichrist, experience the Great Tribulation, and left utterly without hope. Celebrate those who will receive the witness of the 144,000 during the Great Tribulation and invite Jesus in! Rejoice that satan will be defeated and locked up for 1,000 years of peace on earth, and ultimately banished to hell with his angels! In your Bible study, lean not to your own understanding or that of others. We have the "mind", the spiritual insight and understanding, of Christ! (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). I dare not trust some sweet refrain, but wholly lean on Jesus' Name! :thumbs:
     
  5. gekko

    gekko
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    many christians mistake this...

    it shouldn't be the difference between jews and christians - but between jews and gentiles.

    a jew can be a christian and still be a jew. which many dont understand.

    alot of jews dont want to be a christian because they think becoming a christian makes you a non-jew.

    totally wrong.
     

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