Is Arminianism and Hyper-Calvinism in fact the same?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Jarthur001, Apr 27, 2008.

  1. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    I say yes.

    Founders says yes...

    John Hendryx in "What Do Arminianism and Hyper-Calvinism Share in Common?" says yes...


    Greg Gibson agrees....
    www.letslearntheology.com agrees.....
    Do you agree?
     
  2. Jarthur001

    Jarthur001
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    Dr. C. Matthew McMahon agrees....
     
  3. Rippon

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    Good topic James . Whatever gave you the idea to start a thread on this ?:)

    There are indeed parallels between the two heterodox beliefs of Hyper-Calvinism and Arminianism . I think most on this board are inclined more toward Arminianism than say , Calvinism .

    Both systems have similar pitfalls .People need to be warned about both errant ways of viewing theology .
     
  4. J.D.

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    One of the most common errors that Arminians make is their failure to recognize that Calvinism IS the compatibilist view of determinism and responsibility.

    Both A and HC are typically out of balance to one side or the other of that issue.
     
  5. EdSutton

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    The thread title offers a limited choice of false alternatives, IMO.

    Hopefully, I'll have more in the AM, if I have the time.

    Ed
     
  6. Jarthur001

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    Erroll Hulse seems to agree...
    from....ADDING TO THE CHURCH—
    THE PURITAN APPROACH TO PERSUADING SOULS

    David J. Engelsma seems to agree on his notes from Matthew 22:1-14

     
  7. Allan

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    James,
    Where is your citations and or reviews from the Arminian side that agree?

    Otherwise you have a one sided opinion of what one group thinks the otherside believes and it is most often incorrect or wrong.

    Who are those that adhere to the Arminian view which agree with your statements?
     
    #7 Allan, Apr 28, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 28, 2008
  8. Rippon

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    Well ,most Arminians do not identify with that designation , that's the trouble .Calvinists usually admit that they are Calvinists despite all the negative associations which the ill-informed conjure-up . But Arminians are not as forthcoming . Besides ,if an Arminian believes in OSAS he thinks that would disqualify himself from being an Arminian .Although that is not factual . Arminius himself did not come out and say what his settled convictions were on that matter . They were up in the air so-to-speak .
     
  9. drfuss

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    In the OP:
    "The Arminian looks at this premise and says, "Agreed! We know that all men are held responsbile to repent and believe [which is true, according to the Bible]; therefore we must conclude that all men have the ability in themselves to repent and believe [which is false, according to the Bible]." Thus, Arminians teach that unconverted people have within themselves the spiritual ability to repent and believe."

    drfuss: Another false representation of another's belief. I know of no Arminian belief that says man has the ability (without God's drawing and conviction) to repent and believe. Suggest you provide documentation of a statement of faith from an Arminian denomination and not from a Calvinist misrepresentation of another's belief.
     
  10. Allan

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    That is because much like a Calvinist it has and is a system of theology. However, Hyper-Calvinism is a subset of Calvinism system that arises from an extremist view of God's sovereignty.

    So if someone is an HC is it because his view exceeds those of historical Calvinism.
    Yet to say people are Arminian who do not hold to such a system of theology as Calvinism is either a misunderstanding of the truth, willful ignorance or purposeful misrepresentation. There are theological views that Cal and Arm.

    Arminianism is basically a blanket statement to many Calvinists for those who do not hold to their specific theological view but is not a correct label to be placed or used anymore than HC on a person who claims the tenents of Calvinism.
     
  11. Jarthur001

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    No one will admit they are hyper. I have yet to meet one person that claims HC even though I have meet men that seem to be hyper in my eyes.

    Few Baptist will admit to being Arminian, but say the very words that the Arminian says, as they tell of their doctrine. Even those that would come forward and admit to being Arminian see basic Calvinist views as Hyper when they in fact are not. The view is from where you stand and all other views seem to be off level, based on where you place yourself. Calvinism rest right in the middle of these two extremes.

    So Allan, these extreme views by both the Arminian and Hyper Calvinist would NEVER agree that they have the same problem. You can look and see if you can find a statement that both the Arminian and Hyper Calvinist have the same problem by a Arminian, but my feeling is that you are wasting your time.

    Calvinist is indeed the middle ground which takes in account all of the Bible...IMHO

    Allan,

    What do you disagree with in what has been posted. Do you not agree both place mans logic to understanding the Bible and not just believe it as read?

    You are free to share your views and/or post from the Arminian standpoint.
     
  12. Jarthur001

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    Iain Murray agrees...

     
  13. Jarthur001

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    Just as I was labeled a Calvinist long before I went along with that name calling label, the Arminian is labeled such based on his own words. If he denies the label that is up to him. But in order to stop others from handing out this label one must stop sharing the same views of that which he claims he is not.

    I will not change my views just because some people called me a Calvinist. Therefore they can call me whatever they like.
     
  14. Rippon

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    What in the world are you trying to say ?

    Do you mean: "There are other theological viwes aside from Calvinism and Arminianism." ? Of course there are . I've discussed them with you on several occasions .
     
  15. Jarthur001

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    There are many on this very board that would share that view.
     
  16. Rippon

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    No , there are other designations as I have told you repeatedly .However ,most who call themselves Biblicists fall into the classical Arminian model , like it or not .Many others are not as orthodox to be called Arminian -- perhaps they are hyper-Arminian .
     
  17. Rippon

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    Your observations are right on the mark James .Both Arminians and true Hyper-Calvinists are on the left and right side of the Calvinistic position .Spurgeon contended with both elements in his ministry -- as did AW Pink . But it started earlier in his ministry than Phil Johnson thinks .Arthur was called both a hyper-Calvinist and then an Arminian within the space of a couple years when he ministered in Australia in the 1920's.
     
  18. reformedbeliever

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    Where is the scholarship from teh Arminian side? That is one of the problems IMO... there is way more scholarship from the Calvinist side and little from the Arminian side. Compare the two. List the authors.
     
  19. Dale-c

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    this is an excellent thread James.
    I have Thought of similarities before but I had not seen it put so eloquently before.
     
  20. webdog

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    I think "that" should read "than". Why are you so quick to jump on his spelling? Last time I checked, there are no spaces before periods, commas, etc. and double spaces after.
     

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