Is Baptism required for salvation?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by awaken, Sep 7, 2012.

  1. awaken

    awaken
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    After prayerfully studying everything that the New Testament says about baptism and salvation, my personal conclusion is that water baptism is not a requirement for receiving salvation and eternal life.

    Baptism is an outward act in which we make a public identification with Jesus. First there needs to be an inward identification with Jesus through faith, it's the inward identification (not the outward act) which results in salvation so that we will go to heaven.

    I also see how important it is for Christians to be baptized after they believe in Jesus.

    Why Were People Baptized in Water Right after They Believed in Jesus?
     
  2. convicted1

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    No. Water baptism is what places someone in the local church. Now, it is a righteous act in that is represents the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and is a testimony to the world that you have been made alive in Christ Jesus. But it doesn't add one iota to one's salvation.
     
  3. percho

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    IMHO to be water baptized shows we understand what took place in the past as well as what will take place in the future.

    I have asked in threads in this forum before was the water baptism of Jesus a prophetic symbol of the word of God, (a word of prophecy) or as it is stated that Paul over the course of three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures, opening and alleging, that Christ must needs have suffered, and risen again from the dead; and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.

    Was the water baptism of Jesus a prophecy of the above baptism of Jesus of which he said we also will be baptized with?

    See also Romans 6.

    Does that understanding above add to the understanding of Eph 5:26 and 1 Peter 1:23

    Was it not that baptism of Jesus Death and resurrection by the Spirit God how the Church was cleaned, imputed with the righteousness of God. therefore fulfilling all righteousness. Was it not also that baptism of Jesus which brought forth the new birth? Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all [things] he might have the preeminence. Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
     
    #3 percho, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2012
  4. convicted1

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    Baptize a rock, and you still have the same old rock, just a wet one. Baptize a sinner, and you still have a sinner, only a wet sinner, that is. The change takes place prior to being baptized.
     
  5. awaken

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    Interesting! I never thought of that....
     
  6. awaken

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    Is there a scripture that shows that it places someone in the local or body of Christ?
     
  7. awaken

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    After the cross I see a consistent pattern in which people were baptized in water right after they believed in Jesus.

    Those who hold the "faith-alone" view of salvation, and those who hold the "faith-plus-baptism" view of salvation, all believe that proper faith is necessary for salvation. In other words, we won't go to heaven by believing just anything, but instead there are certain specific things that an unsaved person must believe.

    But what is "proper faith"?
     
  8. percho

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    All I will say is read posts in locked threads.
     
  9. awaken

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    A number of passages say that we must "believe" in Jesus to have eternal life, as in this example:

    John 3:14: "Just as Moses lifted up the snake in the desert, so the Son of Man must be lifted up,"
    John 3:15: "that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life."
    John 3:16: ""For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life."
    John 3:17: "For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him."
    John 3:18: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son."

    In the above passage, three times we are told that those who believe in Jesus have eternal life instead of being condemned, and twice we are told that those who don't believe in Jesus are condemned. All five occurrences of the word "believe" in the above passage come from the Greek word pisteuo, which means:
    "To believe, have faith in, trust" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.1160)

    This Greek word is usually translated as "believe," but it is also translated as "trust" in John 14:1, Acts 14:23, Romans 9:33, 10:11, 15:13, and 1 Peter 2:6.
     
  10. awaken

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    Other passages say that we must have "faith" in Jesus to have eternal life (e.g. Romans 3:25-26), which comes from the Greek word pistis, meaning:

    "firm persuasion, conviction, belief in the truth" (The Complete Word Study Dictionary of the New Testament, Spiros Zodhiates, p.1162)
    Notice that the Greek words for "believe" and "faith" are used with essentially the same meaning in the following passages:

    Romans 3:22: "This righteousness from God comes through faith in Jesus Christ to all who believe. There is no difference,"

    2 Corinthians 4:13: "It is written: "I believed; therefore I have spoken." With that same spirit of faith we also believe and therefore speak,"

    Galatians 3:22: "But the Scripture declares that the whole world is a prisoner of sin, so that what was promised, being given through faith in Jesus Christ, might be given to those who believe."

    Hebrews 11:6: "And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him."

    So "believing in" Jesus means the same thing as "having faith in" Jesus.

    But what do we need to believe about Jesus in order to go to heaven?
     
  11. TCGreek

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    Congrats. In answer to your question, I believe because of its significance in the new covenant.
     
  12. awaken

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    Consider that the Pharisees believed that a man named Jesus lived in the first century (Matthew 12:14, 21:45-46), and they believed that Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross (Matthew 27:62-64), yet the Pharisees were condemned ( Matthew 23:13-35). Therefore, believing that a man named Jesus lived in the first century, and believing that Jesus shed His blood and died on the cross, does not have an impact on our salvation. Even atheists are often willing to believe these things, yet atheists are not saved. So "proper faith" involves something else.
     
  13. Earth Wind and Fire

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    Baptism is always been a confusing thing for me to understand coming from a RC & then Presbyterian background. It was always a sacrament pretty much done in infancy. As I grew in faith I could only see immersion as the way scripture presents it.

    Yesterday I visited a church where one of the senior elders indicated that they are "Kinda Baptist" & that when they 1st started the church, they took a vote how they wanted to conduct baptisms (ie, Dunking or sprinkling). That commentary kinda bothered me.
     
    #13 Earth Wind and Fire, Sep 10, 2012
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  14. awaken

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    Well, I believe the Bible teaches full immersion too!
     
  15. awaken

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    In several passages I see that Jesus' sacrifice on the cross made atonement for our sins (Hebrews 2:17, 1 John 2:2, 4:10), and this is what we need to have faith in:

    Romans 3:25: "God presented him as a sacrifice of atonement, through faith in his blood. He did this to demonstrate his justice, because in his forbearance he had left the sins committed beforehand unpunished--"

    The above passage says that we need to have faith in Jesus' blood, and two chapters later Paul explained this more clearly:

    Romans 5:8: "But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
    Romans 5:9: "Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God's wrath through him!"
    Romans 5:10: "For if, when we were God's enemies, we were reconciled to him through the death of his Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through his life!"

    I noticed that Paul referred to Jesus' blood in the context of His death. In the book of Colossians, Paul was even more specific:

    Colossians 1:19: "For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him,"
    Colossians 1:20: "and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross."
    Colossians 1:21: "Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior."
    Colossians 1:22: "But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation--"

    In the above passage, Paul said that God has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus' blood which He shed on the cross, and then Paul added that we were reconciled by Jesus' physical body through His death.

    So putting all of this together, when the Bible talks about Jesus' "blood" it's referring to His sacrificial death on the cross which made atonement for our sins and reconciled us to God.

    In addition, another important point is that Jesus was resurrected from the dead. This demonstrated that Jesus is the Son of God, and His resurrection is so important that our faith would be futile and useless if He had not been resurrected.
     
  16. Brandon C. Jones

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    The Meaning of Believer Baptism

    Hello,

    I do not frequent this board as much as I used to, but I thought I would share a link to my new book on the meaning of believer baptism. It's entitled Waters of Promise: Finding Meaning in Believer Baptism.

    Even though I was raised in the Baptist tradition, I often struggled to identify what my believer baptism meant in light of what Scripture says about baptism. As a result, I researched to see if historical Baptist views on the subject could help me address areas of concern for Baptists today.

    Some of you on here may also find my study helpful. Here's a link to the book at the publisher's Web site: https://wipfandstock.com/store/Waters_of_Promise_Finding_Meaning_in_Believer_Baptism

    Blessings,
    Brandon
     
  17. plain_n_simple

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    You could start those inward and outward identifications with Jesus, by obeying what He said. Repent and be baptized. Don't knit pick the instructions, if you have opportunity it should be done. If not, God is so gracious and big and loving, He will let you in like the thief on the cross.
     
  18. percho

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    Being the holiness of God required the death for sin and the sinless Son of God, Jesus was made to be sin for us, that is Jesus who knew no sin and he died for the sin of the world; Would it be correct to say that the righteousness of God, is, that God the Father did not allow his Son who knew no sin to remain dead for the sin of the world but gave him grace through the resurrection of life by the Spirit of God?

    What did Jesus mean when he told John in Matt. 3:15 YLT But Jesus answering said to him, `Suffer now, for thus it is becoming to us to fulfill all righteousness,' then he doth suffer him.

    How was all righteousness fulfilled? What brought about the righteousness of God being made manifest?

    Romans 5:9 YLT much more, then, having been declared righteous now in his (Jesus) blood, we shall be saved through him (Jesus) from the wrath; (Of God the Father)
    And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, Romans 3:21,22 YLT

    It appears to me it was the faith of Jesus Christ, his death, shed blood by which the righteousness of God could be made manifest.

    It is the righteousness of God the Father that is imputed to all and upon all the ones believing, through Jesus the Son of God, raised from the dead by God the Father. This is done by the, setting apart of, the sanctification of the Holy Spirit.

    Is not all of this pictured in the water baptism of Jesus?

    Will all who are saved have to be baptized with same baptism of which Jesus was baptized with in order to be saved? That is to inherit the kingdom of God?

    That is to be changed from a flesh and blood temporary life being, to an quickened spirit being with eternal life, incorruptible?
     

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