1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is Christmas Scriptural?

Discussion in '2004 Archive' started by Bro. James, Nov 23, 2004.

  1. Dale

    Dale New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    THanksgiving of pagan origin? Where have you heard that?
     
  2. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
    This is getting old hat. All of those objections have been answered. There are many names of various days, names, objects that have names of pagan origin. We can't do without them. They are part of our language. But they are not part of our religious system. Words are not worshipped, per se. Christmas is a religious festival, as is the worship of the sun in different countries. You have the different names of different gods because of different nations worshipping the same festival calling the same god (the sun god) under different names. But the principle in all of this is the same. You have the Christianization of a pagan holiday and festival--the incorporation of pagan icons and idols into Christianity. You have syncretized paganism and Christianity and in essence come up with a new religion, which is neither totally pagan nor totally Christian. "Learn not the way of the heathen," Jeremiah warned.
    DHK
     
  3. mioque

    mioque New Member

    Joined:
    May 23, 2003
    Messages:
    3,899
    Likes Received:
    0
    DHK
    "Christmas is a religious festival"
    "
    That just happens to take place on December 25, apparently a rather popular date for religious festivals. It's that whole days getting longer again thing, gives the whole festival a nice symbolic touch.

    "You have the Christianization of a pagan holiday and festival"
    "
    Sure.

    "the incorporation of pagan icons and idols into Christianity."
    "
    I think you are getting just a little bit overexcited about those nativity scenes.

    "You have syncretized paganism and Christianity and in essence come up with a new religion, which is neither totally pagan nor totally Christian."
    "
    Alexander Hislop is bad for you and he was a fraud as well, stop reading him.
     
  4. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Thanks for proving my point.

    http://www.luciferlink.org/fallsee.htm

    HankD
     
  5. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I don't think so.
    My question is why not go all the way? Why equivocate?

    Why if one slams the celebration of Christmas one does not slam the putting of idolatrous money in the offering or sitting in church worshipping with idols of false gods in one's pocket?

    The celebration of christmas is not the only "syncretized" practice of paganism in Christianity.

    If you wish, we could go into our forms and modes of wordship which have pagan origins. The use of the "pulpit-pew" arrangement for instance unknown to the early church.

    HankD
     
  6. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm with you Brother Hank.

    Giving up Christmas as a Pagan holiday
    but not giving up other Pagan stuff --
    it is much like saying we need to keep
    the Jewish Law to the letter,
    but not giving up our hot dogs
    and pork chops.
     
  7. LadyEagle

    LadyEagle <b>Moderator</b> <img src =/israel.gif>

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2002
    Messages:
    22,028
    Likes Received:
    1
    We should probably technically be celebrating hanukkah (the Feast of Lights), anyway, since Jesus, the Light of the World was probably born during Hanukkah which always falls within the "Christmas" season. [​IMG]
     
  8. Rich_UK

    Rich_UK <img src =/6181.jpg>

    Joined:
    May 26, 2003
    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm surprised you keep baseball cards Bro James. Do you have any pictures of the sinless, virgin Mary to swap also ? :eek:
     
  9. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Or BBQ ribs!!

    HankD
     
  10. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Picture of Mary--

    Sorry my only icons of Mary are mental.(no pictures of the three wise men either) They(the mental images) were formed before Mary was elevated to Queen of Heaven--a pagan notion. She must surely be saddened by those who have conjured "her" at places like Lourdes, and Majourgoria(sic).

    There is only one mediator--Jesus--and He ever lives to make intercession for His flock.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  11. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    Or BBQ ribs!!

    HankD
    </font>[/QUOTE]I wouldn't BBQ any ribs
    but the finest beef.
     
  12. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2002
    Messages:
    909
    Likes Received:
    0
    Dale,
    I don't really care if Thanksgiving is of pagan origins or not. (which I believe it is) My point is that if you throw everything out of your life that has pagan origins you would have to be in one place, the grave. Everything else in our lives have "some" pagan origins. I also believe Bro James has listed all the positions possible on this issue, let me start another list. The "haves" and the "have nots".
    The "haves" are all those people who say "ha ha ha I have the blessing of God on my life because I don't celebrate the PAGAN CHRISTMAS!" and the rest of us who are the "have nots". I just remember the old saying, "some people are so heavenly minded they are no earthly good". I don't celebrate Christmas either by the way.
    Thanks -----Bart
     
  13. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    "Don't Look Back"--"Remember Lot's wife"

    A one line sermon--to the heart of the matter.

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  14. GrannyGumbo

    GrannyGumbo <img src ="/Granny.gif">

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2002
    Messages:
    11,414
    Likes Received:
    0
    The world hates Jesus & He is NOT the reason for the season...Christ-mass is a season looking for a reason. (And no, I don't do the others, including b'days).
     
  15. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry <b>Moderator</b>
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 4, 2001
    Messages:
    21,763
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes, You excluded those who hold the biblical position that Christ was born into this world as the Son of God and the Savior of mankind and it is entirely appropriate to celebrate his birth. It is utter nonsense to suggest that because some use a day for the wrong reasons that we cannot use the same day for the right reasons. The biblical position is that Christ was born and there is nothing wrong with celebrating that.

    You say that Shooting the messenger does not change the message. And you are right ... but it will keep him from spouting off with a bad message.

    There is no dispute that some misuse Christmas, both religiously and materially. But that should not stop true Christians from setting aside the time to remember Christ's birth and worship him in it.

    Exactly ...
     
  16. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Modern research has placed Jesus' birth in October of 6 BC. this research has investigated such facts as when Quirinius was de-facto governor of the area, the dates of the death of Herod, and the approximate date of Augustus Caesar's decreeing a census, coupled with the fact that Augie didn't require everyone to drop what they were doing and rush to their home towns to be counted.

    Common sense says that if GOD had wanted Jesus' earthly birthday to be celebrated, He woulda made that date clearly known. OTOH, He didn't prohibit observing it, either.

    To me, Christmas is a bright spot during what's usually a dreary time of year, and another opportunity to thank God for what He's done during the past year.

    How many of you have a replica AV 1611 or access to one? If you do, please note that Christmas and Easter are among the "Holy Days" listed in the AV.

    To me, these observations are a matter of conscience, same as meat offered to idols in Paul's day. I don't think there's a universal correct answer. Juse remember, whether you observe these days or not, whether you believe they're on the correct days or not, JESUS IS THE REASON FOR THE SEASON.
     
  17. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Right you are RobyCop.

    The King of England, The Titular head of the Church of England in 1611 ordained that certain days and birthdays were to be designated as "holy"
    Well, you say, my KJV has no such "Kalendar".

    Well, might I offer in return (as others have warned about the MVs) that possibly you have a mutilated Bible without the calendar of "holy dayes" (or the Apocrypha for that matter) that the Lord ordained the King of England and the successors to the apostles (his "bishops") to include between the covers of the original First Edition of the Authorised Version bearing the title of "The Holy Bible".

    King James and his "bishops" (apostolic successors) certainly believed "Christmas" to be scriptural.

    http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=kjbible&PagePosition=35

    http://dewey.library.upenn.edu/sceti/printedbooksNew/index.cfm?TextID=kjbible&PagePosition=1

    HankD
     
  18. Bro. James

    Bro. James Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2004
    Messages:
    3,130
    Likes Received:
    59
    Faith:
    Baptist
    The Virgin Birth of the Christ:

    Is a plain teaching of the scripture.

    Children of God celebrating Jesus' birth is nowhere commanded-- unless one is controlled by the dogma of the Vatican. Dec. 25th is certainly a High Holy Day for all those under the pervue of the "holy see".

    Whom shall we follow? The Word of God or the commandments of men?

    The Mass of Christ? Merry Christmas--stop and analyze the derivation of this term--have a happy crucifixion??? Do God's children participate in the Mass of Christ?

    If we practice error long enough it becomes truth--that is just plain "strong delusion".

    Selah,

    Bro. James
     
  19. HankD

    HankD Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    26,977
    Likes Received:
    2,536
    Faith:
    Baptist
    So? There are many things we do that are not commanded.

    But then again neither is the celebration of His birth forbidden.

    HankD
     
  20. DHK

    DHK <b>Moderator</b>

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2000
    Messages:
    37,982
    Likes Received:
    137
     
Loading...