Is Darby a Good Translation?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions/Translations' started by richard n koustas, Sep 27, 2006.

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  1. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    Any opinions?
     
  2. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Where is it available? e-sword? Crosswalk.com?
     
  3. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    Yes, it is at crosswalk.com !


    Romans 10:9 (The Darby Translation)
    that if thou shalt confess with thy mouth Jesus as Lord, F149
    and shalt believe in thine heart that God has raised him
    from among [the] dead, thou shalt be saved
    .

    FOOTNOTES:
    F149: Or '[the] Lord Jesus.'

    Looks like a good translation to me!
     
  4. richard n koustas

    richard n koustas
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    it's also available at blueletter.org
     
  5. Logos1560

    Logos1560
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    A printed edition of the English translation by John Nelson Darby was
    printed by and available from the following source:
    Believers Bookshelf Inc.
    P. O. Box 261
    Sunbury, PA 17801

    I have a copy of it.

    Darby's 1880's English translation was based on the original languages along with a collation or comparison with Darby's German and French translations.

    I have not read it completely, but I have checked a few verses in it.
    I have not read it enough to offer an overall evaluation of it.

    One characteristic of Darby's English translation was its regular use of
    "Jehovah" instead of "LORD" in the Old Testament. This followed some of the other English translations of that time including the 1842 revision of the KJV by Baptists, the 1860's Young's Literal Translation, and the later 1901 ASV.
     
  6. Eliyahu

    Eliyahu
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    I have read it thru and compared it to KJV.

    1. It is based on Masoretic Text for OT and on Majority Text for NT

    2. We can see his effort in translating based on Word-to-Word principle, the accuracy of his grammar from the texts in original languages.
    I feel his translation is very much accurate in grammar.

    3. In doctrinal issues, he retreated from the ways and belief held by KJV in some verses, i.e.
    Johannine Comma ( 1 John 5:7) - he omitted.
    Acts 3:13, 26, 4:27 - Jesus, servant of God ( KJV : Son of God)
    Acts 12:4 - Passover ( KJV - Easter)
    Daniel 9:26 - Messiah shall be cut off and shall have nothing
    ( KJV- but not for himself)

    4. JND reflected the orignial language in the bible for key words.
    Jehovah - instead LORD
    Ashera - instead grove
    Chemarim - ( Idol worshipping priests wearing black costumes, the sames as the Catholic priests today) - Zephaniah 1:4
    Assembly for the ecclesia, instead of church
    Sheperd instead Pastor in Ephesians 4:11 as Poimen used to be mean Sheperd in other verses.

    5. Remarkable translations can be found in these verses:

    Luke 6:1 - the second-first Sabbath.
    He explains it starting from the first-first Sabbath which was the sabbath after the Passover and the Day of the Firstfruits until which no harvesting is allowed.

    Most of modern translations omitted this word - Deutero-proton while KJV reflected it to some extent.

    1 John 3:4 - Lawlessness instead of saying Sin is the transgression of the law as there was the sin even before the Law was introduced.

    6. Throughout the book we can find his strong character as he lived single until the age of 83 even though he had a sister in the Lord to marry, devoting his entire life for preaching gospel.

    7. He translated Bible into French and German for OT and NT, and into Italian for NT.
    His translation has the footnotes which are very much worthwhile to read, reflecting the meanings of the original language.

    Hope this helps you.
     
    #6 Eliyahu, Sep 28, 2006
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2006
  7. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    The following verse (and many related topics) is being discussed at:

    http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=33682

    Dan 2:5 (KJV1611 Edition):
    The King answered, and said to the Caldeans,
    The thing is gone from mee:
    if ye will not make knowen vnto me the dreame,
    with the interpretation thereof, yee shall be cut in pieces,
    and your houses shalbe made a dunghill.

    The Darby Translation
    Daniel 2:5 ;(The Darby Translation):
    The king answered and said to the Chaldeans,
    The command F7 is gone forth from me:
    If ye do not make known unto me the dream,
    and its interpretation, ye shall be cut in pieces,
    and your houses shall be made a dunghill.

    FOOTNOTES:
    F7: Or 'word,' as vers. 8,9; 'matter,' ver. 10; 'thing,' ver 11.

    Note how the Darby Translation is closer to the Modern
    Versions but with good Translator's notes.
     
  8. franklinmonroe

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    Darby (1800-1882) began the "Plymouth Brethren" movement in England and spread it to Europe. While in those countries he collaborated with others to produce new German and French Bible versions.

    He seemed to think the KJV was an adequate English translation, but later he did produce an extremely literal English study version of the NT with abundant footnotes.

    Two years after his death the OT was published in English, the translation done by certain admirers based upon his German and French versions (which completes "The Holy Scriptures" aka Darby Bible). It has been reprinted several times, and as recently as 1983.
     
  9. Keith M

    Keith M
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    Thanks for the great information, Eliyahu! :thumbsup:
     
  10. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards
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    But Garby's Translation isn't worthy of cleaning the pig stuff
    off of the sandel bottom of the Blessed Holy Incarnate
    Inerrant Elizabethan King James Bible (KJB).

    May God bless the KJB and the Irish Fooftball team.
     
  11. Logos1560

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    Here are a few sample renderings in the Darby's Bible:

    At Genesis 1:28, Darby's has "fill the earth" in agreement with the 1560 Geneva Bible.

    At Exodus 5:8, Darby's has "the number of bricks" in agreement with Tyndale's, the 1833 Webster's, and the Modern KJV.

    Darby's ended Exodus 23:17 with "the Lord Jehovah" in agreement with Tyndale's, 1537 Matthew's, 1560 Geneva, 1842 revision of KJV by Baptists, 1860's Young's Literal Translation.

    Darby's is the first English translation that I am aware of that has "hoopoe" instead of "lapwing" (Lev. 11:19), and the 1917 English translation by Jews, the New Scofield, the NKJV, the Modern KJV, and KJ2000 also have this rendering.

    At Deut. 14:5, Darby's has "oryx" in agreement with the 1380's Wycliffe's, Tyndale's, and 1535 Coverdale's where the KJV has "wild ox."

    At Judges 6:22, Darby's has "Lord Jehovah" in agreement with Tyndale's, 1537 Matthew's, 1842 revision by Baptists, and Young's Literal Translation.
     
  12. EdSutton

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    "Fooftball"?? Is that a 'Sooner State' idiom for something? And the Irish play it?? And all this time I thought they played rugby in Ireland, not football. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  13. EdSutton

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    On a serious note, as far as I can tell, the 'Darby' overall, is a good translation of the Bible. :thumbsup: Especially given that it was translated many years ago. While some translated a century or more later are not as good as the Darby. :tear:

    Ed
     
  14. robycop3

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    I have very little trust in someone who developed a false doctrine, I.E. the "seven church ages" foolishness, a doctrine which history has proven completely false. However, his Bible appears sound enough.

    Something some people won't like: he has "the passover" in Acts 12:4.

    I believe it's more of a transliteration, as he uses Elizabethan English quite a bit.

    I haven't read much of it, but it appears to be a valid version.
     
  15. HankD

    HankD
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    Also 1 John 5:7 is as follows:

    Darby 1 John 5:7 For they that bear witness are three:

    HankD
     
  16. Eliyahu

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    Even today nobody is perfect in telling about the ages.
    His dispensationalism started from the characteristics of each age, but went too far.
    There are differences depending on the ages, as the ages of Conscience, Patriarch, Law-Israel, Jesus Christ, Grace-Church, Rapture pretribulation, etc. are different, but if we think about the extreme dispensationalism, it is definitely wrong, I believe. C.I. Scofield may have been influenced by Darby to some extent.
    At the end Darby reached the Rapture before the great tribulation.

    As far as the eschatology nobody is perfect and we cannot disqualify any believer just because of such problem with the eschatology.

    On the other hand, what Darby emphasized was the obedience to the NT teachings, believing that the Holy Spirit who is the Author of Bible doesn't work against what He said in the Bible, regardless of any ages.
    As NT reflected what Jesus has done after the OT era, the churches should follow the NT teachings, he believed.
    So what Plymouth Brethren are keeping today are:
    1) Salvation by faith
    Normally the new believers should pass thru the hearing process for their testimony of salvation.
    2) Baptism for the born-again believers
    3) Weekly celebration of Lord Supper - This may be the most important characteristics of PB. 1 Cor 11:23-30, Acts 20:7
    4) In the weekly Lord Supper, no clergy works. Everyone is equal and is invited by the Lord. There is no clergy working for the rituals.
    5) No pastor, no priest as 1 Pet 2:5-9
    6) Multiple Elders according to 1 Tim 3:1- 13
    7) Calling the believers Brother or Sister.
    8) Discipline inside the church.
    9) Women's head covering as we read 1 Cor 11:1-16

    New King James Version was translated from the texts similar to you a little.
     
  17. Bob Alkire

    Bob Alkire
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    I believe it is a good translation of the Bible. I know I've enjoyed it over the years.
     
  18. Eliyahu

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    I find the last sentence of my previous post states some strange wordings (you: It might have happened because I erased some words in other spots)

    Both New King James Version and Darby translation were based on the principle similar each other, Masoretic for OT, Majority for NT, though NKJ didn't follow Majority in Johannine Comma.

    As for grammatical accuracy, Darby exerted the utmost effort to follow the Word-To-Word principle.

    When I attend so-called Plymouth Brethren, I have wondered why they don't use Darby's, but King James Version despite many good aspects of it. Darby's cannot be the replacement of KJV but can be a good supplement to it.
     
  19. EdSutton

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    Very true. Otherwise, IMO, one would have to "disqualify" any and all who are adherents of so-called covenant theology, any and all 'good' 'teachings' of e.g. many who signed the 'Chicago Statements', The Fundamentals of a century ago, Spurgeon, who supposedly said he did not know enough abut the second coming to preach on it, "The Baptist Faith and Message"(s), and many others individuals and positions, such as these. For all these had some points or represented POV(s) in some instances, I would not agree or have agreed fully with.

    Basically, I agree here, as well, at least as to nobody else. :tongue3:

    I agree. (This is starting to get dangerous!!)

    Somewhat, perhaps. However there are some fairly significant differences between the two schemata, as well.

    Well, then, at least he got one right! :thumbsup: :laugh: :laugh:

    Ed
     
  20. robycop3

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    I believe he over-used the name "Jehovah".

    The "Johannine Comma" thingie is not at all settled. We can still only GUESS whether it belongs or not.

    In Darby's day, it was not correct English to use Easter for Passover.

    The whole "church age" thingie is a crock. Not parts of it, but ALL of it. It was spread in the USA by a charlatan, William Marrion Branham.

    I have a home church which is Baptist, but if I had to leave it for any reason, I would completely refuse to even attend, let alone join, any church that would try to tell my wife and me how to wear our hair, how to dress, etc. The Plymouth brethren are far-too-legalistic for me.

    Overall, I believe Darby's Bible to be valid, despite its composer's being saddled with a false doctrine he made.
     
    #20 robycop3, Oct 2, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2006
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