Is everything that happens God's will?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Terry_Herrington, Jun 13, 2006.

  1. Terry_Herrington

    Terry_Herrington
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    It is my understanding that Calvinists believe that everything that happens is God's will. Is this correct or incorrect?
     
  2. 2BHizown

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    God allowed it, did He not? Wouldnt have happened otherwise.

    He is omniscient, omnipotent and knows all that occurs from before time began and all fits within the framework of His decree!! Even and including, tsunamis, 9-11 and all other occasions that we might consider disasters out of control! He is in control of all!!
     
  3. Terry_Herrington

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    So, it is God's will that little children are raped or molested, right?
     
  4. npetreley

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    Is God powerful enough to prevent it?
     
  5. webdog

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    God has a permissive will, and a declarative will. God also uses everything for His glory, even sin of others, so the rape of a child, while not declared by God was allowed by God. Why? We may never know until we get to Heaven, but it can be guaranteed the result brought glory to God.

    An example of God's permissive will is the allowance of man to accept or reject Him.

    An example of God's declarative will is whoever believes will be saved, whoever does not will be cast into the lake of fire.
     
  6. J.D.

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    Some scriptures come to mind in regards to this:

    (paraphrasing from poor memory)

    "ALL things work together for good to them that love God"

    "ALL things are for your sake"

    "who worketh ALL things acording to the counsel of his own will"

    "my counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure, calling a ravenous bird from the east, the man that executeth my counsel from a far country, I have spoken, I will also bring it to pass; I have purposed it and I will also do it"

    It was not you that sent me here, but God" (Joseph to his evil brothers)

    "You thought evil against, but God meant it for good to save people" (same ref)

    "The LORD hath made ALL things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil"

    A "permit" is permission, even approval, to do something. Permissive will is still will. And what of the evil examples that were provided? No doubt fallen man is building his own indictment, treasuring up wrath unto himself, and yet in spite of this God is working all things to His own glory. In some things we have to lean not on our own understanding.

    "It is doubtless that offenses will come, but woe unto them by whom they come"


     
  7. webdog

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    Kind of a stretch, no? Instead of approval, allowed would be more accurate, or else God approves of the rape of a child.
     
  8. Magnetic Poles

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    Isn't a person who allows a crime to be committed held accountable?
     
  9. BD17

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    I would have to agree with Webdog on this one permission is probably closer to allow, than it is approve.
     
  10. 2BHizown

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    Remembering!

    What it was that occured with His Son?
     
  11. webdog

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    Then who holds God accountable for man's sin?
     
  12. mnw

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    I can appreciate a persons desire to "protect" the soveriegnty of God. (Not that it needs protecting, but they feel the need to defend it.)

    But what I really, really, do not understand is how giving choice removes God's Sovereignty?

    As I see it God says turn to me and be saved or sin and be punished. Either way God controls the outcome.
     
  13. webdog

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    :thumbsup: This is it in a nutshell. God still controls the outcome, whether He allows free choice in following Him...He IS sovereign, and loses none of this in allowing choice.
     
  14. 2BHizown

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    Irristible grace

    Before time began God chose some and gave them to Jesus for salvation. In time the Holy Spirit caused regeneration in the heart of the chosen and they turned toward Christ, became aware of their great sinfulness and lost state and that they were totally unable
    on their own to save themselves. In faith they turned in repentance to Christ pleading for mercy and were saved. Anyone who turns to Christ will be saved. This 'faith' and 'repentance' were gifts from God. The 'irristible grace' is what caused them to change their course from sin to God!
     
  15. webdog

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    That sounds nice and all, and I'm glad you know what you believe, but regeneration prior to faith is not biblical, therefore everything else falls on that.
     
  16. J.D.

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    "Either way God controls the outcome."

    By that do you mean God garauntees the reward or punishment, or does He actually CONTROL the outcome?
     
  17. mnw

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    Gotta admit this is something else that doesn't fly with me. Why did God choose some and reject others? It could not be because He saw some good in a select few.

    Did He randomly pick out genetic blue prints and say "Hey, Number 345,678, We'll regenerate this one. Stick his name in the Book!"

    I know we cannot know 100% the mind of God, but this is a huge matter and it seems there would be some criteria revealed or a process at least.

    Some may come back with the argument from Romans that God can just do with His creation as He wishes. In which case it is just a cosmic chess game with a determined outcome... which sounds pretty boring to me.
     
  18. Terry_Herrington

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    My belief is that God, being Sovereign, created man in His image. He gave to Adam (and through Adam the whole human race) a choice. Obey God or disobey. Man (through Adam) chose to reject God and decided to live outside of God's influence. God, allowed this choice and has allowed mankind to do pretty much as he pleases. God has used man's freewill choices to work out his plan of redemption. In redemption, God paid the penalty and through the shed blood of Jesus Christ has made a way for mankind to come back into the proper relationship with Him. The horrors we see today, such as the raping of children is the result of man's choice which God allowed. God did not owe man this redemption, but in His grace He has offered it. Therefore, those who choose to accept this gift are awarded salvation which is only found in the Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  19. 2BHizown

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    Why is one chosen?

    But after that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
    Titus 3:4-7
     
  20. Terry_Herrington

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    Oh, I see. You actually think that choosing to believe is a work? What an ignorant assumption!:laugh:
     

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