Is excommunication for today, and is there grace in it?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Amorphous, Sep 3, 2016.

  1. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
    Expand Collapse
    Nephilim Slayer

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    3
    If excommunication is for today, how should it be handled? Does excommunication show hierarchical power? And is there grace in it?

    Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
     
    #1 Former Member Amorphous, Sep 3, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2016
  2. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
     
  3. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Thanks for the post. I ask, can you explain what you mean when you ask 'And is there grace in it?' What do you mean by this, specifically the 'grace' part?
     
  4. HankD

    HankD
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2001
    Messages:
    15,126
    Likes Received:
    320
    I didn't post the O/P so this is my opinion.

    Yes there is grace in it.

    Why? Because God gives the opportunity for the erring child of God to return to the blessed fellowship of the church.

    No grace would be if he/she was banned from the church until he/she went home to be with the LORD.

    HankD
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Yeshua1

    Yeshua1
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2012
    Messages:
    17,023
    Likes Received:
    47
    This refers to a saved person acting as if he is not saved, so we need to withdraw fellowship from him, in order to have God deal directly with his own rebelling child!
     
  6. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
    Expand Collapse
    Nephilim Slayer

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    3
    It sounds like a self righteous act of power hungry church leaders throwing people out because they sin differently then them.

    Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  7. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    The objective of church discipline is not to remove but to restore erring members.

    Obviously all persons sin, but there is a difference between living in sin that brings reproach upon the church, to which others are aware (note 1 Corinthians 5 as an example) and a daily personal walk of repentance and cleansing; 1 John 1:1ff.

    Surely none involved in 1 Cor. 5 disciplinary action were being self-righteous, but were called to follow the mandate of removal since there was no repentance. There must also have been sorrow involved on the part of the removed person at a latter time; note 2 Corinthians 2, and he was to be forgiven.

    Galatians 6 also shows us that those who are spiritual are to restore others, so we have that in churches, some who actually are 'holier than thou' and are examples to the flock. These are and should be appointed as leaders within a church, to help guard others and assist others in their spiritual walk.

    Also, there are those who are worthy of double honor, who labor in the Word and doctrine; 1 Timothy 5:17. I would not broad brush the church as being a bunch of self-righteous power hungry individuals seeking to throw others out of church, but it would be perhaps easier to do so without considering the other Scriptures.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  8. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    493
    Yes, restoration is always the intent. Yet, when the offender offers no remorse, no repentance, no willingness to listen to what the church offers, excommunication is the only option...used as a last resort as well. Look at how Jesus spoke in Matthew 18. Three times a church is to seek reconciliation, but if the offender doesn't want it, too, you have to excommunicate that individual.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    I'd say the person in 2 Corinthians 2 would find that the church extended grace to him by following God's disciplinary action and I believe it was the man in 1 Cor. 5 iirc. Note Hebrews 12:8ff.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  10. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    493
    What would your church do with a member who was living a life of debauchery? If they would not heed to the church's advice?
     
  11. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,293
    Likes Received:
    783
    Why does it sound like that to you?
     
  12. Iconoclast

    Iconoclast
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    13,378
    Likes Received:
    728
    Biblical Church discipline is a mark of a true church.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  13. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,162
    Likes Received:
    368
    We have had to recently practice it twice. It was not taken lightly and it was not a step that was taken quickly but months after the sin was found out. It was only when it was clear that the people were not repentant of their sin but instead embracing it and excusing it that the discipline occurred. It breaks my heart and I really do pray that these individuals would someday turn back to God and walk away from the damaging sin that they so closely are holding.
     
    • Winner Winner x 2
  14. SovereignGrace

    SovereignGrace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2015
    Messages:
    2,781
    Likes Received:
    493
    Bu...bu....but you'd be showing more grace to them if you left them alone and did not excommunicate them. SMH.
     
  15. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,162
    Likes Received:
    368
    I know. But there is that pesky 1 Corinthians 5 that seems to get in the way....
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  16. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
    Expand Collapse
    Nephilim Slayer

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    3
    So the pastors and elders that won't give up their porn addiction are right to toss out the person who isn't giving up alcoholism?

    Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
     
  17. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,162
    Likes Received:
    368
    And how do you know that the pastors and elders have a porn addiction?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. Former Member Amorphous

    Former Member Amorphous
    Expand Collapse
    Nephilim Slayer

    Joined:
    May 18, 2016
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    3
    How do you know they don't, or don't have other sin? Even the scriptures admit that they which say they don't sin are liars.

    Sent from my 5054N using Tapatalk
     
  19. annsni

    annsni
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Administrator

    Joined:
    May 30, 2006
    Messages:
    20,162
    Likes Received:
    368
    Yes, we all sin. However, what sin is exposed? I know for an absolute fact that my pastor does not have a porn addiction. He won't even look at Victoria's Secret commercials and his is completely open with his wife (me) with all of his electronic transmissions.

    But we are not speaking of "hidden" sins. If it were to come out that a pastor has a porn addiction, I would expect our church leadership (the deacons and elders) to ask that pastor to step down for a time. If no one is aware of the sin, how could anyone act on it? But it's not just the pastors but we've asked individuals to step out of a leadership position for a time until they have dealt with their sin. It is called "being a part of the body". When there is an infection in the body, we need to address it, open it, clean out the infection and help that body part to be restored to full health.

    In the particular cases that we recently had, it was a BLATANTLY obvious sin - the member thumbing their nose at God and the leadership of the church who had been working to help these individuals leave their sin behind and follow God's Word. But they refused. So there was nothing else to be done but to practice the excommunication and to announce it to the congregation. The sin to start was a more private sin and only very few of us knew it but once the parties refused to turn away and tried to continue to be a part of the life of the church, it had to be stopped. Sin is dangerous. Read 1 Corinthians 5 and tell me that excommunication is wrong. A gangrenous limb needs to be removed from the body in order to protect the rest of the body.
     
  20. Internet Theologian

    Internet Theologian
    Expand Collapse
    Banned

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2015
    Messages:
    2,224
    Likes Received:
    986
    Have you confronted those pastors and elders you know are involved in porn? Or are you just hypothesizing?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1

Share This Page

Loading...