Is Faith A Choice?

Hi Tumbleweed;

Now that you believe the car will get you there. Lets suppose that you've never ridden in that car. You've seen it take other people and bring them back safely, but you have never trusted that car to do this for you. A person can believe in something with out trusting in it. When you bought that first car You had no evidence in order to believe but, it worked for others, would it work for you? In order to have that evidence that you place your trust in. You must first make the decision to try it out. This is the only decision you'll have to make and as long as that car does it's job you'll have faith in it.
In order to know Christ you must try Him out. You have to get to know Him before the evidence will come. At first all you have is conviction of your sin, but you can see what is right.
I admit that I was chosen first by God to receive eternal life this is His grace. My decision to trust Him is accepting that grace. Surrendering my will to His.
May God bless You;
Mike

 

Primitive Baptist,

You said, 'Both Arminians and Calvinists believe that salvation is by grace through faith
(Eph. 2:8). Are there any Arminians on this board who believe that a sinner
can come to Jesus apart from the drawing of the Father (John 6:44)?'

Not me . . .

 

Hi Tumbleweed;

In fact a leap of faith is what I'm talking about. Although I wouldn't say in the dark, but rather in the light or, to the light. There is no way anyone can say that they believed in Christ with the faith of a man who has followed Christ all his life at first. Our faith comes to us by hearing the gospel. The word says so. It doesn't say we receive faith as a gift before we hear the gospel. The more we hear the more we receive. I grew up in a Baptist church I knew that Christ was who He said He was long before I surrendered to Him. I was not saved until I trusted in Him. Faith must be placed into action by trusting in Him.
Jam 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

What truly saves a man is in God's word. It's the witness of Christ. It's His sacrifice. It It His life of perfect Love. There is no other proof I need than to know Christ Loves me. He died for me. So that if I would only trust and believe in Him. I could have eternal life with Him.

I can honestly say that when I accepted Christ my faith wasn't near as strong as it is now.

I don't really remember my first ride in a car. I do remember my first ride in a plane. That wasn't very long ago. I have to admit all sorts of things were going through my mind. Most of it was fear of crashing. Everything where there is any risk, (if we are to do them at all,) we have to take that leap of faith. We must first trust.
May God Bless You;
Mike

 

heres a related article written developing the "faith of christ" compared to the notion of "faith in christ".
I found it to explain very well that faith is not a choice of man but a work of God.

Faith of Christ explained

Me2

 

Multimillions of Americans believe in God. Many among this number believe things about Jesus, but this does not make them, or cause them to become saved.

Being saved is placing your faith/trust in Jesus for everything. Believing in Christ and His grace but first seeing your need is a prerequisite to the Lord ministering His saving grace. Conviction, sensing His love, believing in Jesus comes first. When we really believe in Christ as our only hope of eternal life, it is at that second in time that He saves us eternally. [John 1:12 & John 10:28-31; I Peter 1:5 & I John 5:10,12,*13, & 20f]

 

"faith is not a product of my mind. it is a product of my spirit."

Metaphysical, existential . . . a leap into the dark.

 

Billwald,

Basicly, without the congitive powers of the mind, God cannot change the heart by the indewelling of the Holy Spirit. Almighty God demands belief. [John 3:16 & Acts 16:31]

In the case of minors/infants and children, or mentally deficient people, the Lord protects them via His personal atonement. This is pinpointed in Scripture in II Samuel 11:23.

Berrian

 

Ray Berrian said:

Uhmmm. Soooo.

What you are saying is there is a different way of salvation for infants and mentally deficient people. They don't have to hear and understand and respond to gospel preaching, or to accept Christ, like you demand of those who have full command of their faculties ?

Prove by Scripture that there are two ways of salvation.

 

Ray,

"Personal atonement?"

 

pinobaptist,

'There is only one Christian faith and there is only one way to Heaven and that is through the blood/atonement of Jesus, our Lord. He is sovereign and according to II Samuel 12:23 Jesus takes children into His kingdom and not just David's illegitimate son. His blood covers their Original Sin.

In the N.T. Jesus said, 'Suffer/let the children come unto Me and forbid them not, for of such is the Kingdom of God.'

In your system of quasi-theology the Lord tosses some children into Hell and some He takes to Heaven, all based on His own capriciousness and pleasure.

 

2 Sam 11:23 And the messenger said to David, "Surely the men prevailed against us and came out to us in the field; then we drove them back as far as the entrance of the gate.

Okaaay....where can I get my Ray Decoder Ring to get personal atonement out of this verse?

 

"Basicly, without the congitive powers of the mind, God cannot change the heart by the indewelling of the Holy Spirit. Almighty God demands belief. [John 3:16 & Acts 16:31]"

"Belief," "conclusion," and "think" are used interchangably. Note your use of "cognitive."

A belief, or conclusion is made on the basis of historica experience + new data. An existential or metaphysical experience is new data.

 

npetreley,

Forgive me. My mistake. My reference is II Samuel 12:23. Thanks for bring this to my attention.

Ray

 

billwald,

My quote was: '"Basicly, without the congitive powers of the mind, God cannot change
the heart by the indewelling of the Holy Spirit. Almighty God demands
belief. [John 3:16 & Acts 16:31]"

Quote: '"Belief," "conclusion," and "think" are used interchangably. Note your
use of "cognitive."

Ray's quote: 'If a sinner does not have the powers of cognition-the act of processing theological truth, both being aware of and making a clear choice of judgment, he cannot truly believe in Jesus as personal Savior.

Quote: 'A belief, or conclusion is made on the basis of historica experience + new data. An existential or metaphysical experience is new data.'

Ray's quote: Yes, a sinner has to believe in the historical data, namely, that Jesus lived and died 2,000 years ago for the sins of humanity. [I Corinthians 15:3-5]

In my way of expressing it I would say that yes we will have a spiritual experience when we truly believe and trust in Jesus as our only Savior and Lord, although we are not to test our faith by our inner feelings, necessarily. If we are in the faith, we will desire to live a holy life and as we grow in Christ we will yield the 'fruit of the Spirit.' Existentialism and metaphysical sounds more like philosophy than Christian theology.{end quote}

 

"Ray's quote: Yes, a sinner has to believe in the historical data, namely, that Jesus lived and died 2,000 years ago for the sins of humanity. [I Corinthians 15:3-5]"

As stated, that's an easy test.

 

I believe, like you do, that children, mentally challenged (is that the PC expression?), etc will be saved. But I have my own theory as to why, and it's not Biblical. Neither do I think yours is Biblical. We have support such as 2 Sam 12:23 that it will happen, but where do you get your ideas of HOW/WHY it happens?

By the way, just because David "knew" he would see his son in heaven doesn't necessarily apply to all children. It is entirely possible that he had a special revelation from the Spirit. He could also have been optimistic, and that's all.

Like I said, I think he WILL see his son, but we need to be careful about drawing a blanket conclusion from one statement like this.

 

npetreley,

You said quote: 'We have support such as 2 Sam 12:23 that it will happen, but where do you get your ideas of HOW/WHY it happens?'

Ray is saying quote: 'I don't know why God takes some babies/children to Heaven prematurely. Do you have any plausible ideas? I leave these matters in God's hands of care and love.' {end quote}

 

Is faith a choice?

Faith is a gift from God. The exercizing of faith is a choice left to man.

"Great faith; little faith; where is your faith?; full of faith; have faith; continue in faith; weak in faith; strong in faith; etc." all tell of man's relationship with faith and his responsible choice of exercizing it.