Featured Is Faith "requirement" to be saved by God?

More twaddle,and fiddlesticks, denials,wrong ides,,,,but very consistently inconsistent:wavey:

 

Well, it only took one page...1 for somebody to attempt to derail it to another "Calvinist" thread.... oh well...


back to the OP

Well said!!!!

 

I would like for all of you to look at the verses kyredneck posted in context with Paul. By Paul's own admission 1 Tim. 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did [it] ignorantly in unbelief.

That in bold was Paul"s state of being on or about noon on the road to Damascus to do that which is underlined. Instantly that day Paul went from unbelief to belief, obtained mercy and you are going to tell me it was because of his faith.

He obtained mercy through Jesus, whom the God before placed propitiation (a place of mercy, the mercy seat) through the faith in (by) the blood of him.

Paul did not obtain mercy by Paul's faith "in" the blood of Jesus making Jesus the mercy seat.

Jesus became the mercy seat because of his obedience of faith unto dying for Paul and all.

To be moved from unbelief to belief is the work of God.

 

I don't think so for I believe Gal 3 would show that the faith is the conduit by which the promise of the Holy Spirit was received.

V14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through the faith.
V23 says there was a time when that, "the faith" was not present. Had not come.
V25 says there was a time when that, "the faith" was present. Had come.

Verse 22 says it was by faith of Jesus Christ, the promise of the Spirit might be given to the believing ones.

Acts 2:32,33 absolutely states the risen Jesus Christ received the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father and then and only then could it be given to us. It was given to Jesus the Christ for faith unto dying. Jesus himself said, "for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you;" If I am not obedient unto death.

BTW this was said prior to his agony in prayer to the Father who was able to save him from death in the garden. Hebrews 12 describes this as, resisted unto blood, striving against sin. Sin as in being disobedient unto death.

 

That doesn't establish that faith is work Paul was making a play on their words since they assumed they must DO something in order to be acceptable unto God. In fact, the text simply is stating - The 'work' is Gods, you must believe. Thus in truth it also affirms my previous statement that is backed by and establish in scripture (Rom 4:3-6) Faith is not, nor can it ever be considered a work.

 

Very much so - Agreed!

 

God puts us "in Christ."

Hi AIC, you seem to be missing my point, it is God's assessment of our faith that is His basis for putting us in Christ. You seem to be saying if we put our faith in Christ, that "automatically saves us" and that would mean the man who wills saves himself. Not according to scripture.

Lets look at the two time-lines: Calvinism teaches before creation God chose certain individuals for salvation, then during their lifetime He causes them to come to faith (gift of faith) via irresistible grace. Arminianism teaches before creation God chose certain individuals He foresaw would choose to trust in Christ on their own volition, and then when the foreseen individuals choose to trust in Christ, they are automatically saved, having been "chosen" before creation. Contrary to these unbiblical view, the Bible teaches God chooses folks during their lifetime after crediting their autonomous faith in Christ as righteousness, by placing them spiritually "in Christ." 2 Thessalonians 2:13, 1 Peter 1:1-2, James 2:5, 1 Corinthians 1:26-30 and on and on.

 

Pitchback

Just another drive by post, devoid of content. 2 Thessalonians 2:13 clear, God chooses folks for salvation by setting them apart in Christ, the sanctifying work of the Spirit, on the basis of crediting our faith as righteousness, Romans 4:5.

 

Pitchback

Yet another false charge by the charging posters, making one false charge after another. But what goes around comes around, Jesus was falsely charged by religious turf warriors in His day.

 

So to clarify, which of these is closer to what you are saying:

1. Many people have faith in God, but God decides which of those to credit their faith as righteousness based purely on his own free choice?

or...

2. Many have faith in God, but God decides which to credit as righteousness based on the level, or the sold-outness of their faith? (if you pick this one, how is not still based on "the man who wills?")

 

Van...

You posted..

Well, of course God knows the difference between "sincere" faith and "phony" faith! That is obvious.

Well, maybe you are different than me. I am a scriptures guy. Some others (maybe you, I dont know) heed the teaching of men, rather than God.

Calvinists, as an example, heed the words of a man (Calvin) over the scriptures. And the end result is horrible false teaching in that system.

According to scriptures if a person sincerly places their faith in Christ for their salvation...they are eternally saved.

To add anything to that would make it a false gosple.

Nonsense. Nobody "wills" themselves into heaven.

We are saved when we choose to place our faith in Christ alone in.

According to the scriptures of course, and not the teaching of a mere man.

 

It's statements like this that causes heated debates between people. Was this really necessary? You know this isn't true, so why say it? Let's keep to the subject without false accusations like this.

 

Soooooo, are you on my bandwagon now?? :laugh:

BTW, I am glad we agree!! :thumbs:

 

I dunno. Let's take a gander at it, okay?

Regeneration is the new birth, so it is part of God's grace. The way you have worded this, it sounds like pre-faith regeneration, which is biblically impossible, IMHHO. One is not given life until they believe. One can not believe w/o faith. So pre-faith regeneration is biblically impossible, IMHHO.

Agreed. Without Christ's atonement of the cross, none of us would be saved, but be either in hell now, or headed that way when we died.

Jesus opened up the passage for faith to flow. Read in Gal. 3, how under the Law, they were shut up unto the faith:

Without Christ dying, and then ascending back to the Father, the Spirit, which takes up His abode inside of us in the inner man, would not have come down. Jesus told the Disciples that He would not leave them comfortless, but that He would pray to the Father, and He would send the Comforter, in His name, which is the Holy Ghost.

God raised His Son again, agreed. When Jesus' Spirit entered into His physical body that third morning, His body(outer man), came alive again, and defeated satan right then and there. Jesus the man(outer body) died, but Jesus God(Spirit) never did.

If you hold to pre-faith regeneration, IMHHO you did.

 

I would disagree with your interpretation of the parable of the sower.

Luk 8:5 A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it.
6 And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture.
7 And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it.
8 And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.


Only the way side soil was not saved. The word never took root and sprang up, the devil came and took the word out of their hearts.

The rocky soil, the thorny soil, and the good soil "sprang up", it had life.

The rocky soil and the thorny soil had life. They sprang up. The difference is that they did not bring forth fruit. The good soil brings forth fruit.

You are confusing being saved with bringing forth fruit. They are not the same.

Anyone who places their faith in Jesus is saved, though many fall away because of persecution, or become distracted by the world and do not bring forth fruit. But they shall be saved, even so by fire.

 

JBH28...

JBH...it was not my intention to be inflamatory at all. But I do believe that calvinists do indeed read the scriptures through the eyes of calvin, rather than the other way around. Non cals may indeed do the same regarding other systems..such as arminionism..but not to at all to the degree that calvinists do, imo.

If I am wrong may God correct me.

 

What must I do to be saved?
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and thou shalt be saved, thou and thy house. Acts 16:30, 31

Christ was asked:

“What must we do, that we may work the works of God?”

Christ replied:

“This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.”

It seems pretty straight forward to me. Our belief/faith is a work which is well pleasing to God.

Gill:

Ver. 29. Jesus answered and said unto them, this is the work of God,.... The main and principal one, and which is well pleasing in his sight; and without which it is impossible to please him; and without which no work whatever is a good work; and this is of the operation of God, which he himself works in men; it is not of themselves, it is the pure gift of God:

that ye believe on him whom he hath sent; there are other works which are well pleasing to God, when rightly performed, but faith is the chief work, and others are only acceptable when done in the faith of Christ. This, as a principle, is purely God's work; as it is an act, or as it is exercised under the influence of divine grace, it is man's act: "that ye believe"; the object of it is Christ, as sent by the Father, as the Mediator between God and men, as appointed by him to be the Saviour and Redeemer; and believing in Christ, is believing in God that sent him. The Jews reduce all the six hundred and thirteen precepts of the law, for so many they say there are, to this one, "the just shall live by his faith", Hab 2:4. {e}

JFB:

29 This is the work of God--That lies at the threshold of all acceptable obedience, being not only the prerequisite to it, but the proper spring of it--in that sense, the work of works, emphatically "the work of God."

Clarke:

Verse 28. "That we might work the works of God?" - That is, Divine works, or such as God can approve.

Verse 29. "This is the work of God, that ye believe" - There is nothing you can be employed in more acceptable to God than in yielding to the evidence set before you, and acknowledging me as your Messiah and the saviour of a lost world.

No, in truth, it does NOT affirm any such thing. In truth, the line between genuine faith and acceptable works, BOTH of which spring forth by nature from the heart which has had the law written upon it (read born from above), is a very fine if not blurred one:

....the righteous by his stedfastness liveth. Hab 2:4

....the doers of the law shall be justified Ro 2:13

....I by my works will show thee my faith.
...by works a man is justified, and not only by faith. Ja 2:18, 24

Faith AND works have the same origin, the heart circumcised not with hands.

 

Percho, I agree, Paul was struck down on the road to Damascus, but the above statement is not what the passage in Jn 6 is saying (see my prior post).

Paul was changed because God brought him to that point and:

"...when it was the good pleasure of God, who separated me, even from my mother`s womb, and called me through his grace, to reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the Gentiles...." Gal 1:15,16