Is forgiveness required in all cases?

Discussion in 'General Baptist Discussions' started by CoJoJax, Feb 15, 2009.

  1. CoJoJax

    CoJoJax
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Today in church, our pastor did a sermon on forgiveness and preached out of Matthew 18; specifically verses 21-35.

    I had a question or two about it, if you guys don't mind taking a shot at it.

    As a saved person, are you expected to forgive everything and anything? As a saved person, are there any exceptions? Not that I'm trying to get around Jesus' teachings, I'm just wondering! Example .. family of 9/11 victims .. despite the horrific event that killed their family member, are they still required to forgive the killers? Even if the killers were not saved or Christians themselves? Especially considering the circumstances in the example, the killers aren't alive any longer, so are you even required to forgive them anymore (especially since they likely are now in hell).

    Hopefully these aren't dumb questions but I'm just wanting a deeper understanding of everything. Answers with scripture included are very appreciated! :thumbs:

    (Edit: I realize that's more than 2 questions there .. bare with me. And if this is supposed to be in the Study forum and not this one, let me know .. my bad!)
     
    #1 CoJoJax, Feb 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009
  2. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    Didn't Jesus command us to forgive? Didn't Jesus say that the Father will forgive us in the same manner that we forgive others?

    Yes, we should forgive. That doesn't mean we don't grieve, and it doesn't mean it might take us some time to work through all the emotions. But we should forgive others just as Almighty God has forgiven us.

    And I don't see why it matters if they are saved or not.

    peace to you:praying:
     
  3. preachinjesus

    preachinjesus
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member
    Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2004
    Messages:
    7,406
    Likes Received:
    99
    It would seem that Christ offers no other option than forgiveness. When we forgive greatly we emulate the very nature of Jesus whom we are trying to become more like.

    I wonder how much greater a forgiveness as mentioned above replicates the kind ultimate forgivness which Christ did for us and those who crucified Him. :)
     
  4. CoJoJax

    CoJoJax
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2009
    Messages:
    175
    Likes Received:
    0
    Well I guess that pretty much sums up it all up right there ..

    This is why I post on here .. to find the answers to dumb questions that pop up in my head. :laugh:

    I have good intentions .. I swear!

    Thanks again.
     
  5. mparkerfd20

    mparkerfd20
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2008
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    0
    nm. I found my answer.
     
    #5 mparkerfd20, Feb 15, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 15, 2009
  6. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    I would be sorely put upon for the people that Madoff swindeled and has that smirky smile to be forgiven for what he has done to them and their future. I have heard that three people have taken their own life because of him ruining them and others. There's to much natural man in me to consider giving him forgiveness for what he has done. It sees that all these powerful people can get by with hurting their fellowman.
     
  7. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Funny thing about forgiving, when we forgive others we are the first ones healed. We no longer have a burden of hatred or anger when we give it over to God.:godisgood:
     
  8. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Where am I told to forgive everyone of everything?

    Doesn't the Bible tell me forgive as I am forgiven?

    Am I not forgiven by repenting and asking Christ?

    Am I to forgive unrepentant evils?


    Just asking.
     
  9. Plain Old Bill

    Plain Old Bill
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 30, 2003
    Messages:
    3,657
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yes. If we want forgiveness we are to forgive. Jesus teaches that in parables,When He taught the disciples how to pray, and over and over again in His earthly ministry.

    The practical side of forgiveness is when we do forgive the burden of resentment and hate, and a bunch of other bad feelings are lifted from us like a big heavy rock.:godisgood:
     
  10. chuck2336

    chuck2336
    Expand Collapse
    Member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2007
    Messages:
    587
    Likes Received:
    2

    I do not think that when the Bible says to forgive as you are forgiven it is talking about taking all the steps. I believe the bible is telling us God forgives us so we should forgive period. I also believe that God tells us to forgive for our own best interest not those who have wronged us.

    But this is just my opinion.
     
  11. Pastor David

    Pastor David
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    Messages:
    246
    Likes Received:
    0
    Just as God's forgiveness is not unconditional, neither should ours be. God does not wink at sin and simply forgive us without any responsibility on our part. Those that God forgives are those who come seeking forgiveness. I John 1:9 makes this clear:

    "If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."

    Only when we confess our wrongs are our sins forgiven. Now, not harboring anger or resentment is not the same thing as extending forgiveness. Even if we're never given the opportinuty to extend forgiveness to someone who wrongs us, we simply move on - there's no need to allow a root of bitterness to reside in our hearts. But like with the Lord, true forgiveness can not be granted until it is sought after and asked for.
     
  12. Marcia

    Marcia
    Expand Collapse
    Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Messages:
    11,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    In the Bible.

    Yes, forgive since you have been forgiven by God.

    You are forgiven of sins but you are told to forgive others of their wrongs against you.

    Yes.

    We just had a sermon on this yesterday - we are commanded to forgive.

    Forgiveness does not mean, however, that you have to trust the person who hurt you - the trust has to be earned.

    It does not mean you have to become best friends with the person you forgive, either.

    Forgiveness means you release them from the debt they owe you, whether they ask for it or not, whether they are saved or not, whether they even know whether or not you are forgiving them (it could be a dead person).
     
  13. donnA

    donnA
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2000
    Messages:
    23,354
    Likes Received:
    0
    that would be my opinion also. forgiveness isn't for the benefit of the other person, it's for our benefit.
     
  14. Don

    Don
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2000
    Messages:
    10,548
    Likes Received:
    212
    That's a good one.

    The only thing I would add is, what about unrepentent sinning/evil?
     
  15. ray Marshall

    ray Marshall
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2007
    Messages:
    570
    Likes Received:
    0
    So if Obana signs that stimulus package,( which was done by outside interest of the International Bankers before it was ever given a vote by both houses) and this nation goes belly-up, then we are suppose to forgive and forget. I have trouble with that.
     
  16. thegospelgeek

    thegospelgeek
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 28, 2008
    Messages:
    1,139
    Likes Received:
    0
    Reference?

    Yes, forgive since you have been forgiven by God.[/QUOTE]
    I am forgiven by confession. Couldn't forgive as I have been forgiven imply this same method?

    Reference?

    Where does it tell me to forgive everything and everyone?

    Doesn't true forgivness imply that we forget?

    From a personal point of view I have no problem with your stance. I forgive and forget very easily. Nothing on my part, that's just how God made me. I was like that even before I was saved. However I am not 100% convinced this is scriptural. I can't think of any direct instruction to do so. I can list examples of Stephen and Christ doing just this. But if we are to be like Christ and we say that means forgiving everyone of everything wouldn't that imply that God does the same and none would be lost. Even though they did not believe in Christ, repent, or ask forgiveness? I'm just kinda thinking out loud.
     
  17. just-want-peace

    just-want-peace
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2002
    Messages:
    5,505
    Likes Received:
    40
    AMEN!!!

    Forgive? Yes! Forget? Do you really think this is a possibility, barring a direct act of God to block your memory? I don't remember any scripture telling me to "forget".

    I look at it this way. Someone has wronged me or a loved one - drunk driver, dope addict, over zealous cop, --there's no way what's been done can be un-done, OR forgotten. But if I truly forgive the offending party - I may not like them, or trust them, or even want to be friends with them - but I can remember the damaging episode without feeling that I have to get revenge!

    In other words I can remember the episode and the only feeling it evokes in me toward the offender is nothing more scathing than the emotion of thinking that "-today is Tuesday-"; IE you remember the facts, but the searing emotions are gone by your choice.

    Hard? Most certainly, but as noted by another poster, it's more for your benefit than the forgivee.
     
  18. canadyjd

    canadyjd
    Expand Collapse
    New Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2005
    Messages:
    3,896
    Likes Received:
    0
    I believe you are in error on this issue.

    What about sins you have committed and simply forgot about? Do those sins remain unforgiven?

    What about those things that you do that you don't believe are sins, but, in fact, are sins?

    Scripture tells us about a paraletic that was brought to Jesus so as to be healed of his condition, and Jesus, seeing their faith (his companions and the man), said to the man "your sins are forgiven".

    Now, there is no record in scripture that the man had asked for forgiveness of his sins, or that he was even aware of his sins. Jesus, seeing the faith that they had in His ability to heal, forgave the man's sins.

    So, your attempt to make this an absolute statement (i.e. "only when we confess our sins are our sins forgiven") is not supported by scripture.


    peace to you:praying:
     
    #18 canadyjd, Feb 17, 2009
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 17, 2009
  19. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2008
    Messages:
    16,648
    Likes Received:
    158
    The Lord's Prayer sayd, "Forgive us our trespasses [sins] as we forgive those who trespass [sin] against us." The responsiblity is ours to forgive. We will be forgiven by God in the way we forgive others.

    It is the same with judgement. We will be judged in the same manner that we judge others.

    Scary stuff.
     
  20. Revmitchell

    Revmitchell
    Expand Collapse
    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2006
    Messages:
    38,364
    Likes Received:
    790

    I agree!:thumbs:
     

Share This Page

Loading...