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Is God a Failure?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Tom Butler, Dec 6, 2008.

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  1. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    ...except you left off the rejection.
     
    #41 webdog, Dec 12, 2008
  2. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Allan, you know me too well. We've discussed this before, so I'd rather not chase this rabbit right now. But I confess it did occur to me.
     
    #42 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
  3. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Then let me add it. Non-Cals: If anyone rejects Christ and is not saved, it's not God's fault.
     
    #43 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
  4. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Sorry Andy. Thanks for the clarification.
     
    #44 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
  5. webdog

    webdog Active Member
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    Better if by rejection we mean (Websters):
    1 a: to refuse to accept, consider, submit to, take for some purpose, or use <rejected the suggestion> <reject a manuscript> b: to refuse to hear, receive, or admit :

    :)
     
    #45 webdog, Dec 12, 2008
  6. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Allan, let me cherry-pick through this post:
    Not only must be through faith, but it will be through faith.


    Agreed. The gospel call is valid and sincere to all to whom it is preached.


    Hmm, I don't understand. Here we are agreeing again.

    Agree again. You sure you're not a closet Calvinist? Or maybe I'm a closet non-Cal.
    The rest of your post covers ground we've covered before, so I won't repeat it.

    You are so easy.
     
    #46 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
  7. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    Since I think non-Cals ought to be able to define the terms of their position, whatever definition you pick is fine with me. You saw what happened when I tried to define it for them.
     
    #47 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
  8. ReformedBaptist

    ReformedBaptist Well-Known Member

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    My son and I will be chasing some rabbits in January...hopefully all the way to the stew pot!

    Carry on.
     
    #48 ReformedBaptist, Dec 12, 2008
  9. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Since my question was never answered, I'lll ask it again and open it up to everyone.


    Quote:
    And here I was thinking the noncals were the ones who thought God was a failure, after all if He died for ALL the sins of ALL the people, why are there people in hell?




    Using that logic does this verse make God a failure in the eyes of Calvinists?

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Since Hell was prepared by God for the devil and his angels, and not for man did God fail in that millions of men end up there?
     
    #49 Steven2006, Dec 12, 2008
  10. MB

    MB Well-Known Member

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    Though I'm not a Calvinist you certainly have a point here. Since Calvinism holds to a particular view of who will be saved and who won't by limiting election and atonement it would certainly seems as if God must have failed in there eyes.
    MB
     
    #50 MB, Dec 12, 2008
  11. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    God gives all to the Son who come to Him for rest for their weary souls.

    The fact remains that all sinners don't get weary of the burden of sin, they tend to flaunt it instead.

    All who come to him shall not ever be cast out as those he never knew. God never knew anyone who has not come to Him for forgiveness. This "knowledge" deals expressly with rekationship that first must be established through coming to God in a broken will.

    A broken will speaks of weariness due to the complications of sin.

    No one has ever limited who can come or how many will come or even how many can come who get weary of the burden that sin places on everyone, inclusive of all of mankind.

    God's grace never excludes, it is found to be inclusive of all who come and anyone can, it's just everyone won't.

    From my "vile mouth".:godisgood: and I'm vile.
     
    #51 Salamander, Dec 12, 2008
  12. Salamander

    Salamander New Member

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    My previous post answers your question

    From my "vile mouth":godisgood: and I'm vile.
     
    #52 Salamander, Dec 12, 2008
  13. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Confession is good for the soul.
     
    #53 Rippon, Dec 12, 2008
  14. Rippon

    Rippon Well-Known Member
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    Calvinists have insisted that God had a particular design of the atonement whereby certain ones would be saved.That was the Lord's specific intention.How you can possibly construe this as failure on God's part is puzzling as well as blasphemous.
     
    #54 Rippon, Dec 12, 2008
  15. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    Sorry if I missed it, but I don't see how that addressed my question.
     
    #55 Steven2006, Dec 12, 2008
  16. Steven2006

    Steven2006 New Member

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    In fairness to MB, I think you misunderstood the point he was making. He was responding to my post.

    This was posted earlier in the thread.
    Quote:
    And here I was thinking the noncals were the ones who thought God was a failure, after all if He died for ALL the sins of ALL the people, why are there people in hell?


    In response to that, I posed this question:


    Using that logic does this verse make God a failure in the eyes of Calvinists?

    Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

    Since Hell was prepared by God for the devil and his angels, and not for man did God fail in that millions of men end up there?

    MB was just reponding to my question.
     
    #56 Steven2006, Dec 12, 2008
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 12, 2008
  17. Tom Butler

    Tom Butler New Member

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    John 6:37 has an order. God gives to the Son, the given will come, not vice versa.
     
    #57 Tom Butler, Dec 12, 2008
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