Is God a Moral Monster?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by evangelist6589, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589
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    Out witnessing today and thanks to the poster that encouraged me to pass out $1 to each person for answering questions on the 10 commandments and this worked as I spoke with several one on one. I also am not sure if I in my pride or in my discernment caused division with a CM&A (Missionary Alliance) group. They were down and praying perhaps I misunderstood them because they said they did not see a reason to preach on sin, and hell when witnessing, because as one of the old ladies told me "not everyone is called to be a teacher" as she took a verse James said out of context. The NT never implies that ONLY "teachers" and "pastors" are to witness. I rebuked them, and got a old lady really angry at me whom got in my face when I was open air preaching. I mentioned what Jesus did when he first came to earth, and mentioned the likes of many of the Reformers and also including Charles Spurgeon but it made no impact on those whom have made a God in their own image, or are in ignorance on the issue. For to them the Bible and the writings of Jonathan Edwards, George Whitfield, Bunyan, and others means nothing.

    Anyways I had a long chat with an agnostic whom seemed very determined to believe God to be a mass murderer and criminal by wiping out all the babies and children in the flood. To Him God is the real criminal. I mentioned the grace God gave to the children because they got an instant ticket to Heaven by dying in the flood, for if they had grown up and stayed in their ways, they would be sure of an eternity in Hell. I mentioned the judge and how a real judge cannot let guilty criminals go free, and How God is the Holy and righteous judge, but the agnostic seemed determined to stay in his ways.

    I then mentioned the doctrine of illumination and how the HS illuminates his light on people. I was gonna say that He did so on those whom have been chosen for salvation the elect, but I did not say so. If he got saved then he could read Chosen by God by RC Sproul or the book What is Reformed theology? The positive was that we left in peace, and he agreed to read some booklets that I had given him. The agnostic wanted so badly to prove me wrong, and prove God to be a mass murderer and killer of babies and children, so maybe he might get hungry and I will mail him a book. What would be your pick for such a person? Evidences are only good for those searching for answers.
     
    #1 evangelist6589, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 11, 2014
  2. Winman

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    Where does the Bible teach that God gives a free pass to wicked sinners who do not believe on Jesus? If babies are wicked sinners, then they DESERVE to spend eternity in hell don't they? So why would God treat them any different than any other wicked sinners?

    You make God sound like an unjust and inconsistent judge.
     
  3. OldRegular

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    I would never start a thread with that title. As far as I am concerned it is blasphemous no matter what your excuse is. In my opinion the moderators should not even allow those words to be used on this Christian Forum.
     
  4. evangelist6589

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    Yes the agnostics need prayer and help. Have you ever witnessed to one? This man was quite determined God is this way and I am sad. However also happy he was willing to read and reason....
     
  5. matt wade

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    Sounds like your pride got the best of you.
     
  6. JonC

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    Evan, I am glad to see the dollar thing worked for you. My suggestion would be to keep centered on the gospel...there is no evidence that God spared the children in the flood and once you venture into guessing your conversation is doomed. My suggestion is to refrain from "rebuke," ignore the scoffers, and continue to preach the gospel. A second suggestion is to refrain from labeling people whom you encounter. As a street evangelist, you are dealing with people, not theological entities.

    Brother, I remain in awe of your heart for evangelism. I know that it is often hard for you, but I am praying that you are steadfast and grow even closer to God in your walk.
     
  7. convicted1

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    Is there any unrighteousness s,with God? God forbid....


    Babies get to heaven same way as others, by grace through faith...not by being born sinless....
     
  8. Winman

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    Do you think a one or two year old baby can really understand that they are a sinner before God and understand that Jesus died for their sins, and place their trust in Jesus? I do not know of anyone who believes children this small are capable of saving faith.

    So, do all little babies go to hell? After all, you believe they are all wicked sinners.

    Yes or no?
     
  9. evangelist6589

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    Perhaps, yes perhaps...
     
  10. evangelist6589

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    No God did not spare the children in the flood, but by them dying they got grace at least thats what I understand and I did get this info from Gleason Archer or Norm Geisler. But even if they are wrong, its all speculation. I actually have it quite easy compared to some. If you would PM me your email I will send you some WOTM Radio Podcasts of those street evangelists really getting bombed. Also have you read the book Slave by Mac? Mac tells lots of stories of people in the past that had it far worse than me. Some were imprisoned in the most harsh environment, starved, and suffered much for their faith. In fact if you or anyone has a book suggestion of the 1st century martyr's of the faith whom got fed to lions, I would like to read it, so I can be even more bold for the gospel.

    But one line from Slave I will never forget that some of the evangelists spoke in boldness to their persecutors.

    I am a slave, yes I am a slave of God.
    I am a slave, yes I am a slave of God.

    I have spoken this to WinMan after his attacks.

    Thanks..
     
    #10 evangelist6589, Aug 10, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 10, 2014
  11. Iconoclast

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    :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
     
  12. evangelist6589

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    Then I do not know how I would word the thread.
     
  13. Iconoclast

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    Psalm 2

    King James Version (KJV)



    2 Why do the heathen rage, and the people imagine a vain thing?
     
  14. Winman

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    John I think it is great you go out and preach, although you lose your reward when you come here and boast about it.

    You did not answer my question though. If you believe babies are wicked sinners, then why wouldn't babies go to hell when they die? Why should they get special treatment, that would make God inconsistent and a respecter of persons, wouldn't it?

    Shouldn't all babies that die go straight to hell? If not, why not?
     
  15. kyredneck

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    Uh, yeah, my sentiments exactly.
     
  16. Jordan Kurecki

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    Well, I made 3 Catholics upset today,

    One guy got really mad when I explained and exegeted the prayer of the Pharisee and the Publican to him, I wasn't even able to make the application, just explaining the text to him got him convicted enough to not want to talk to me.

    then I witnessed to a Catholic older lady for about 25 minutes, I had sermon cds with me and forgot to give her one, so i went back and knocked on the door, her daughter answered and was offended that I handed out a "are Catholics Christians" tract... she said "tearing down peoples religions...very Christian of you... " it made me furious just how wrong and far from the truth this statement was.... needless to say I don't think my testimony tract got read by them either... did get a lot of scripture and the gospel presented to the girls mother though.

    A lot of self righteous proud religious people nowadays, our area is completely dominated by Roman Catholic and Muslims.

    about 8 out of 10 we talk to are Catholic. about 1 out of 20 are Muslim.

    Evangelism is hard here in the South Suburbs of Chicago, we really need God's power.
     
  17. evangelist6589

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    Jordan you are blessed! I would love to be in an area with 8/10 Catholics as they can be reasoned with. What Dominates Denver is secularism/Humanism/relativism and they often cannot be reasoned with as they do not think beyond this life. Catholics at least have a foundation to talk with. I love chatting with cults and Catholics in my area when I meet them which is very rare.

    Jordan dozens of books out there to help you, and if you are interested I'd check out this site.

    http://www.fellowshiptractleague.org/english.html

    Lots of Catholic tracts there.

    John
     
  18. OldRegular

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    Most Appropriate Icon. I thank you and the originator of this thread should also!
     
  19. Jordan Kurecki

    Jordan Kurecki
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    Its tough brother. you try to have a conversation with them and they say "im catholic" as if that's a magic phrase that makes nothing you say matter or relevant.
     
  20. convicted1

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    Again, babies sin because they are already sinners. They don't sin and then are considered sinners.

    I don't believe babies go to hell, but if they did, God is just in doing so, because everything He does is right...
     

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