1. Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Is God never the author of confusion?

Discussion in 'Bible Versions & Translations' started by tinytim, Oct 11, 2006.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Top Posters
Page 1 of 3
  1. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I have heard it quoted that God is not the author of confusion, therefore He cannot be behind many of the different translations, Satan is trying to confuse us.

    Think about these verses, and tell me whether God is the author of confusion here.... and think about this... if it wasn't for these verses, we wouldn't need translations.

    Genesis 11:1-9
    (1) And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
    (2) And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.
    (3) And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.
    (4) And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top [may reach] unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.
    (5) And the LORD came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.
    (6) And the LORD said, Behold, the people [is] one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.
    (7) Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.
    (8) So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.
    (9) Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the LORD did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the LORD scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.
     
    #1 tinytim, Oct 11, 2006
  2. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    I hear a great deal of "God is not the author of confusion" when someone disagrees with me.

    We don't agree, thus there is confusion.
    Since there is confusion, it is not of God.
    Since I am the one who is "wrong," then the confusion, and thus Satan's work, is my fault

    Sound familiar?
     
    #2 rbell, Oct 11, 2006
  3. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Now your sounding like my wife!
    "Tim, it is always your fault!!"
     
    #3 tinytim, Oct 11, 2006
  4. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    marking ...
     
    #4 Ed Edwards, Oct 11, 2006
  5. robycop3

    robycop3 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2000
    Messages:
    14,362
    Likes Received:
    668
    Faith:
    Baptist
    I believe that the confusion is made by MAN. Given the many possible correct definitions of Hebrew & Greek words/phrases in English, each Bible translator is gonna make an English version different from any other...but who are WE to say this'n's right & that's's wrong if each one is a correct translation of its sources, while using different but correct renderings of those sources? I believe GOD wants us to see His word in its broadest sense, and thus has caused the various translations to heve been made.
     
    #5 robycop3, Oct 12, 2006
  6. deacon jd

    deacon jd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    The quote you mentioned is found in Gods Word in 1 Cor 14. The difference in this passage and what we see at the tower of Babel is simple. God is not the author of confusion in the church while we read in scripture of more than one time where he caused confusion among the wicked.
     
    #6 deacon jd, Oct 12, 2006
  7. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    Very good Deacon JD.
    So it is not appropriate to make a blanket statement about God not causing confusion when in fact he has among non-believers.

    That was what I was getting at.
    Man can cause confusion also...as well as Satan.
     
    #7 tinytim, Oct 12, 2006
  8. Keith M

    Keith M New Member

    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2002
    Messages:
    2,024
    Likes Received:
    0
    Yeah, what he said...
     
    #8 Keith M, Oct 12, 2006
  9. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0

    Amen, Brother Robocop3 -- Preach it! :thumbs:
     
    #9 Ed Edwards, Oct 12, 2006
  10. deacon jd

    deacon jd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Strange but I think we agree on something here. I do believe that the confusion caused by so many different versions of the bible is caused by man as well as Satan.
     
    #10 deacon jd, Oct 12, 2006
  11. rbell

    rbell Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    11,103
    Likes Received:
    0
    But that's where I think we've muddied the waters, between "confusion" and "disagreement."

    I disagree with your stance on MV's. That doesn't mean there is "confusion." It might mean that one of us is right!:laugh:
     
    #11 rbell, Oct 12, 2006
  12. Askjo

    Askjo New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2003
    Messages:
    3,736
    Likes Received:
    0
    Correct! I agree with you.
     
    #12 Askjo, Oct 12, 2006
  13. Deacon

    Deacon Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2002
    Messages:
    9,497
    Likes Received:
    1,241
    Faith:
    Baptist
    It never bothered the apostles to quote from the various local "versions" that differed from their Hebrew.

    Those that claim "confusion" are the creators of it rather than the protectors of the word.

    Rob
     
    #13 Deacon, Oct 12, 2006
  14. Logos1560

    Logos1560 Well-Known Member
    Site Supporter

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2004
    Messages:
    6,217
    Likes Received:
    406
    Faith:
    Baptist
    Are you implying that God was not responsible for or not involved in guiding the translators of the pre-1611 English Bibles with their many many variations and differences? The KJV was a revision of these earlier English Bibles.
     
    #14 Logos1560, Oct 12, 2006
  15. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    My God is also a God of abundance. He has blessed us with his Word in various forms so that the whole world can receive it, in spite of Satan's efforts.

    Psa 23:5 Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
     
    #15 franklinmonroe, Oct 12, 2006
  16. tinytim

    tinytim <img src =/tim2.jpg>

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2003
    Messages:
    11,250
    Likes Received:
    0
    I doubt we will agree here, because I see the confusion coming from man and Satan not from the fact that we have many different versions, but from the fact that some refuse to be educated concerning translational issues...

    Ignorance causes confusion, and when someone refuses to gain knowledge on a subject they are willingly ignorant.

    One of the strongest weapons that Satan has is ignorance... That is how the RCC enslaved thousands during the dark ages.
    And some Baptists are trying to do it today by downplaying education among the Christian.
     
    #16 tinytim, Oct 12, 2006
  17. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0


    Amen, Brother TinyTim -- You are so RIGHT ON !     :thumbs:
     
    #17 Ed Edwards, Oct 12, 2006
  18. deacon jd

    deacon jd New Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2006
    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tim do you mean to tell me that when that new convert picks up that MV bible, and finds some of the contradictions that I have mentioned on here before that they are not going to be confused? This is the type of confusion that I am talking about. Should every believer be sent to bible college so that some liberal can teach them how to explain these contradictions away?
     
    #18 deacon jd, Oct 13, 2006
  19. franklinmonroe

    franklinmonroe Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2006
    Messages:
    2,929
    Likes Received:
    4
    Yes! In fact, just as it is possible to raise reading/study skills in order to understand and appreciate the elegant English verbiage of the KJV, it is also possible to raise knowledge/awareness of the many English Bible versions in order to eliminate potential 'confusion'.

    I have never heard or read the KJV-O argument about 'confusion' fully explained. I always assumed that they are making the point that many versions of the Bible makes finding the 'true' Bible similar to "finding a needle in a haystack". They seem to imply that if there is more than one choice, then a decision must be made between the representatives (and thus an opportunity for 'confusion').

    In my mind, this argument was always seemed doomed from the very first or second century; there were already many foreign language versions (and there are definitely textual differences among them). All Greek NT manuscripts ever found are different... doesn't that make them different 'versions'? Of course, its those very differences in these underlying ancient texts that are a major portion of the whole Onlyist debate. But very early on there was already a virtual explosion of Bible versions!

    Next, Jerome was employed to produce the Vulgate because of the many poorly rendered Latin versions in circulation nearly 1000 years before the King James.

    As well, there were multiple English Bibles before the AV: Coverdale, Matthew's, Geneva, and Bishop's to name just a few. Just among English versions the KJV was "piling on" the already 'confusing' landscape of translations. Of course, since 1611 hundreds of new English versions have appeared (a few of which are truly heretical and corrupt).

    In summary, I urge the Onlyists to abandon the untenable 'confusion' discussion for the good of His Church and the lost world. First, (short of a miracle by God) time will not be turned back to 100AD to stop the proliferation of foreign versions. Second, the AV cannot claim to be the first English Bible, and therefore is as guilty as any other "Johnny-come-lately". Even if every Christian became convinced that there was only one 'true' Bible, would the other versions go away? No.

    In my ignorance (praise God, His ways are above mine) I would prefer a world with only one authoritative Bible (the untranslated autographs), but the fact remains that there are many translations in the world (English included) and we as mature, informed, intelligent Christians must be the ones to stand against Satan's attempt at using God's blessing of abundant versions as an issue that might prevent the advancement of His kingdom. Deal with it.
     
    #19 franklinmonroe, Oct 13, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2006
  20. Ed Edwards

    Ed Edwards <img src=/Ed.gif>

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2002
    Messages:
    15,715
    Likes Received:
    0
    For post 20 we present for the first time in the topic:
    the verse we are discussing:

    1 Corinthians 14:33 (KJV1611 Edition):
    For God is not the authour of confusion,
    but of peace, as in all Churches of the Saints.

    Note that what ever 'confusion' is here, it's
    opposite is 'peace'. Furthermore, the
    confusion is not in AND the peace is in
    ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS.
     
    #20 Ed Edwards, Oct 13, 2006
Page 1 of 3
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...