Is God the Author of Evil?

Discussion in 'Other Christian Denominations' started by Crabtownboy, Oct 25, 2012.

  1. Crabtownboy

    Crabtownboy
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    Is God the author of evil?

    I say No!
     
  2. Earth Wind and Fire

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    NO & quit asking the bloody question...its getting ridiculous:BangHead:.
     
  3. The Biblicist

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    Just as well ask if Satan is the author of righteousness!
     
  4. savedbymercy

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    Yes, God is the Author of All both good and evil ! God Authored sin in accordance with His Eternal Redemptive Purpose in Christ Jesus. When God first Created this World, it was for Christ to come and finish a Work for Himself upon it, Jesus speaks of it here Jn 17:4

    4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

    That work whereby He Glorifed His Father upon the Earth, it the PRIMARY Purpose of the Creation of this Earth, do you know what that Was ?
     
  5. Earth Wind and Fire

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    I sincerely hope....oh never mind! Pointless
     
  6. savedbymercy

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    If you object to what I just posted, it is because you have no ideal what the Eternal Purpose of God is, None whatsover !
     
  7. Thinkingstuff

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    I think sometimes when the bible is translated into english the original language's intent is not evil but catastrophy like a flood. But that is not the same as God creating evil. God doesn't create evil. Evil is a natural consequence of going against God. But that doesn't mean God created it. God cannot sin. And thus to create evil is to sin. If your contention is that God is beyond both Good and Evil then in your theology Evil can be good. Thus nothing is really evil and to become like God we must also practice evil. Is that really what you propose?
     
  8. The Biblicist

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    Here is the flaw upon which your whole soteriology rests. Your "god" is not the holy and righteous God of the Bible who has no "shadow" of turning. Your "god" has a nature consistent with sin so that it both conceives, approves and purposes sin.

    Your "god" is a sinner because "sin" is more than mere action but it is the contemplation of evil and evil was first contemplated by your "god" in addition to approvig and purposing it.
     
  9. savedbymercy

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    ts

    What scripture says He doesnt Create Evil ?


    In the mean time here is one that says He does Isa 45:7

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
     
  10. The Biblicist

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    He is not contextually talking about MORAL evil but "EVIL" in contrast to "peace" or circumstantial evil that destroys peace in the realm of nature.
     
    #10 The Biblicist, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2012
  11. Thinkingstuff

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    Have you ever heard of a strongs concordance? The Hebrew word there used is ra and can mean multitude of things such as "evil, distress, misery, injury, calamity." In this sense I don't believe Isaiah is indicating that God causes evil in the sense of its being "morally wrong" or "immoral" but rather "characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous: to be fallen on evil days."
     
  12. savedbymercy

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    ts

    You bet, its one of my favorite study tools. It tells us that the word evil there is the hebrew word ra` and means:


    1) bad, evil

    a) bad, disagreeable, malignant

    b) bad, unpleasant, evil (giving pain, unhappiness, misery)

    c) evil, displeasing

    d) bad (of its kind - land, water, etc)

    e) bad (of value)

    f) worse than, worst (comparison)

    g) sad, unhappy

    h) evil (hurtful)

    i) bad, unkind (vicious in disposition)

    j) bad, evil, wicked (ethically)

    1) in general, of persons, of thoughts

    2) deeds, actions

    n m

    God Created Evil and all what the Word means ! It includes ethical evil or moral evil, hurtful evil !

    So whatever evil ra can produce in God's World, God Created it for His Purpose Isa 45:7

    God Created ethical evil or moral Evil because He purposed to use it to cause evil wicked men to be responsible for the slaying of Christ here Acts 2:23

    23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

    All that God purposed before He Created the World in the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph 3:11


    11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

    Rev 13:8

    8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

    God Created Evil for His Purpose in Christ, whether you believe it or understand it or not !
     
  13. Thinkingstuff

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    See you don't seem to understand language then. That one word has several connotations and its not limited to just one. And depending on its use in language determines what is meant. Now if you believe that the bible cannot contradict itself which I assume you do and since the bible says
    speaking of Jesus who is God.
    and also
    that God cannot sin or see evil. That Isaiah doesn't mean "ethically or morally evil" Isaiah means calamity. To have your view would mean that evil is good and the scriptures contradict itself.

    Look, instead of finding passages that allow you to sin against God and say that God is evil and allows for it to promote Jesus. Place the proper context on what you are reading. Next thing I expect that someone with your view would do is say something to the effect that "I cheated on my wife to Glorify Jesus after all God created sin and evil for that very same reason!"
     
    #13 Thinkingstuff, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2012
  14. savedbymercy

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    ts

    Thats your opinion of me, which frankly means nothing to me, Isa 45:7

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    You need to produce the scripture that supports your statement of unbelief here !

     
  15. The Biblicist

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    Pr 23:9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

    No sense discussing with you as you don't even have a testimony of receiving Christ and thus no ability to hear much less discern God's Word.
     
  16. Thinkingstuff

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    Regardless of my opinion of you, you still have the bible contradicting itself. And God doesn't create evil in the sense that God creates something to be inetheical or immoral. or he himself creates immorality which is what you are trying to suggest. God creates evil in the sense that he makes calamities happen.
    Simple deduction God doesn't create evil in your sense of the word God does create evil in the sense of calamity. Thus God doesn't create evil Ie immorality. Period.
    See here is your delemma. Love in English means many things (like ra in hebrew) from like to sexual interest. So if you tell me you love your dog and I think you are interested in it sexually you would blanch at that would you not? You mean that you like it very much but not sexually. But I can always say but you said you "love" your dog and so you must mean sexually! However, its ridiculous to suppose that you love your dog that way. So it is with the term evil and with God. God is accused by you to create evil ie immorality and is wants unethical people just so people see how great Christ is! I imagine God must be as offended by your thinking he created evil in the sense you claim as you feel offended about being misunderstood to inappropriately "loving" a dog.
     
    #16 Thinkingstuff, Oct 25, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 25, 2012
  17. savedbymercy

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    ts

    Thats your opinion !

    which frankly means nothing to me, Isa 45:7

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    You need to produce the scripture that supports your statement of unbelief here !

     
  18. Thinkingstuff

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    I have but of course you don't want to deal with context. Is sin evil? Can God sin? What does the scripture say about God sinning? Clearly he can't sin. So since we are using one word to describe many aspects but not all aspects are meant contextually. You fail your own understanding if sin=evil and God cannot sin. God cannot evil in the context spoken of. You want to misapply a wrong suggestion to the definition of which "evil" is meant. You are associating the wrong evil. And it is to that evil that I speak "God doesn't create Evil" properly understood to mean "God doesn't create immorality or sin" Whereby God would be evil Do you hold that God is evil?
     
  19. savedbymercy

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    Thats a lie. You have given not one verse that says that !

    Isa 45:7

    7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.

    You need to produce the scripture that supports your statement of unbelief here !

     
  20. Thinkingstuff

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    That is a heafty accusation! Care to prove that I lied? You said
    To which I responded
    Referring to my post which said
    referrencing Hebrews 4:15; James 1:13; and Habakkuk 1:13 to prove my points. Then you accuse me
    Obviously, you are wrong. However, its a clear implication you have yet to prove.

    I did and I repeat them here on this post. I believe God creates evil in the sense that he creates calamity. Which is what the bible is saying. I do not believe as you are puporting that God created immorality, or sin in order to make Jesus look good. Thus I do not believe God creates evil. Or evil in the sense you are trying to make us believe. The verses I used show how your view contradicts other scripture verses. Where as my understanding of what that passage says with regard to evil does not. Thus I can clearly say God does not create evil as it has been translated into English where I believe a better english translation would say calamity or bad things happening to people. But no insinuation regarding sin or immorality.
     

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