Is God's grace a free gift to Calvinist

Discussion in '2003 Archive' started by romanbear, Feb 26, 2003.

  1. romanbear

    romanbear
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    If grace be free. Then how is it that God would force us to take his free gift. A gift is never forced on us, if it is. It isn't a gift but a commandment. How can something be called a gift if we have no choice to receive it.
    Romanbear
     
  2. KenH

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    Because God is under no obligation to regenerate us. He does so only by His free grace. [​IMG]
     
  3. Yelsew

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    Romanbear, it is clear that you do not understand Grace.

    Grace is not a commodity that God bestows on believers or distributes like candy.

    Grace is an attribute, something that is true of the one possessing that attribute. Grace is not a possession in an ownership sense of the term, but rather a condition that is true of the one having it.

    Grace is not like rain in that it falls upon us from some mysterious source, but it does apply to the just and unjust alike because it is a condition of behaviour of the one having it.

    Other attributes that we believe are true of God include Love, Mercy, Justice, Faithfulness, Holiness, and the omni-attributes. All of which are states of behavior for the one possessing them.

    So long as God allows his Grace to prevail, he restrains his Justice. Surely we deserve his Justice much more than we deserve his Grace.

    God's grace prevails over all of His creation in equal force or amount, for there is no limiting that which is of God, he is limitless. Therefore his Grace is limitless, His Love is limitless, His Mercy is limitless, His faithfulness is limitless, His holiness is limitless.

    God's grace does not pass through the Baskin-Robins filter, coming out in 31 different flavors. He has but one grace, and that Grace constrains his justice, thereby allowing mankind to hear and those who will to come to belief in Jesus.
     
  4. Ray Berrian

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    The result of sin is spiritual death. ' . . . the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. [Romans 6:23] Everlasting life can only be received when accepted as His gift to sinners. A gift extended is not necessarily received. This is the decision of the lost person. Being more Arminian in theology, this is the way God intends us to understand His plan to live forever with Him.
     
  5. KenH

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    I have a newsflash for you, Ray - God does not save people based on the Arminian paradigm.
     
  6. Primitive Baptist

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    The grace of God is a free gift freely bestowed. God is not an Arminian. Neither is a a Universalist for that matter. ;)
     
  7. KenH

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    Amen, PB. God is not bound by our puny human intellect and understanding. [​IMG]
     
  8. Yelsew

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    Prove me wrong! Snailmail me a portion of the grace God bestowed upon you so that I will have some.
     
  9. KenH

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    That is hilarious, Yelsew! [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  10. Ray Berrian

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    Our brother Calvinists are great at repeating their church dogma. We find little Scripture backing your claim to Calvinism and its Biblical truthfulness. Repeating church dogma requires very little study. Just repeat what you are told; this will cover the need.
     
  11. KenH

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    Ahhhh, so that is what you are doing, Ray. [​IMG]
     
  12. sturgman

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    Ray, how much scripture must we give to you? If you refuse to see what the bible says, then why do you come to this board?
     
  13. russell55

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    I agree with you that God doesn't force anyone to take his grace. That does not mean, however, that we have to ask for grace before we get any, or even think we want it before we get it.

    Perhaps I can illustrate what I mean with a story from real life. My mom is getting older and she has alzheimer's disease. She is always complaining that no one ever visits her (which is not true--she just forgets their visits), and that she is very lonely. My sister thought that it would be really nice if she had a small dog to keep her company. The only problem was, my mom had been insisting for years that she doesn't want a pet, that a pet would be too much trouble, too expensive, etc, etc.

    Well, my sister (goodness knows what possessed her!) went out and bought my mom a miniature poodle puppy for Christmas 3 years ago, even though my mom had never asked for one, and had insisted that she did not want one. But the moment my mom saw that little black puppy, she knew it was exactly what she wanted. That dog has added more joy to my mother's life than you can imagine.

    The dog was a gift to her, a gift she didn't want until she had it. But at no point was she forced into taking anything she didn't want.

    That is sort of like what God's initial grace is to us. It is a gift we don't ask for, don't want, but the very instant we have it, we know it's what we want. God graciously draws us while we are rejecting him, never forcing us, but enticing in a way that we will not refuse.

    Look the Saul in Acts. Did he ask for the initial grace of God to him--the blinding light from heaven and the voice talking to him? Of course not. Did he think he wanted it? It was probably the last thing he thought he wanted. And yet our Lord gave Paul that special experience of His grace at the time that Paul was still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord. Paul was rejecting our Lord at the very time that our Lord came to him.

    Was Paul forced? I wouldn't say so, but he was certainly enlightened to the truth at the very time that he was actively rejecting it. Once enlightened, however, he was thankful for that enlightenment.
     
  14. Yelsew

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    This, of course, assumes that God gives his grace away. God's grace is already present or we would not be here to discuss it. Another example of finite thinking about infinite God!

    God's Grace is not a commodity that he dispenses like candy. No matter how hard you pray for grace, you'll never get any more of it than you have right now, and that is infinite grace because God is infinite, and grace is something that is true of God. Wake up and smell the coffee!

    Everything that man does is done because God's attribute of Grace prevails as the dominant attribute which constrains his wrath, keeping Him from giving to us what we deserve.

    To get more grace you must turn your receptors more to God. The more we turn to God the more of God we received. And Yes, Man is capable of turning to God using the same abilities with which he turns away from God.
     
  15. romanbear

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    Hi everyone;
    Grace is a free gift isn't it and it is something that is not forced on you. A gift is never forced but offered with the hope of you receiving it, in the love in which it is offered. God in his sovereignty offers Salvation and Grace to all man. All we have to do is accept it. God offers everyone equally the opportunity to receive eternal life. IMHO if God chooses some to be elected and predestines the others to hell. Then He cannot be a God who is Just. He cannot be a God of Love. He would be a dictator God, and a respecter of men. God's Love is why He is not a respecter of men. The Bible says so and I believe it. God is Love. If He is then He, in his Love would never think of something that would restrict or take away mans freewill. My Lord Hung on a Cross for everyone some would like to discourage others of any hope. His own countrymen put Him there because they couldn't accept His deity. They rejected Christ because they did not accept Him as the messiah. They were His chosen people. They were with out doubt the elect because God chose them and yet in there freewill rejected Him. He came unto His own and his own reveived Him not. This is what is staring you in the face who claim we have no free will. These men who rejected Christ were the cause of Him being crucified. They clearly had a choice and with there own free will would not receive Him. It is my heart felt desire that all would see that it is up to us to accept our Lords offer. If we do not accept the offer the consequences are very apparent. If you have not accepted you are lost. If you wait thinking that you don't have to accept His offer that somehow you are already saved because He chose you. Then you may have to bear the outcome of your rejection. Devils believe and tremble.Belief alone is not enough. We have to accept Him for who He is. Please let down your denial and open the door of your heart and let the savior come in to you and dwell with in you It's your choice.
    Romanbear
     
  16. npetreley

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    That sounds so romantic, gosh, it must be in the Bible somewhere, right? No? Well, it sounds so nice, that we should probably believe it anyway.

    Can I try my hand at making up stuff that sounds like a profound universal truth?

    "Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. Take heart amid the deepening gloom that your dog is finally getting enough cheese; and reflect that whatever misfortune may be your lot, it could only be worse in Milwaukee. Therefore make peace with your God whatever you conceive Him to be -- Hairy Thunderer or Cosmic Muffin."

    Not very original, maybe, but I never was good at making this stuff up.
     
  17. romanbear

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    The lack of Love is apparent here and when shown it's ridiculed
    Romanbear
     
  18. Hardsheller

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    Romanbear,

    You have repeatedly been asked to hit the enter key on your keyboard more frequently so that we can read your posts without losing our eyesight.

    Is your refusal to comply with our simple request in anyway linked to your inability for understanding simple propositions? :confused:
     
  19. npetreley

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    What I am ridiculing is sentimental gibberish that has no Biblical foundation. If you want real love, read the Bible and expound upon those truths here. If you want to post a bunch of unbiblical sentiment, then get a job writing greeting cards.
     
  20. romanbear

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    Hi Npetreley and Hardsheller; [​IMG]
    Your Ridicule is my pleasure to endure for the sake of Christ
    Romanbear [​IMG]
     

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