Is God's Sovereign really absolute control of everything?

rc, Aren't you the one who stated the bible is infallable ABSOLUTE TRUTH?

I said

rc replied

Implying therefore that the scripture it ABSOLUTE TRUTH.

While I agree that the scriptures Contain ABSOLUTE TRUTHs, I must disagree that the Scriputers are ABSOLUTE! If they were, there would be ONLY ONE VERSION, There could never be any corrections that increase understanding, and we would all be conversant in Greek, Aramaic, and Hebrew!

If the Scriptures are ABSOLUTE, Who needs CALVIN? Pelagius, Wesley, Aristotle, etc. Who needs five points? NNE, The scriptures are ABSOLUTE!

Get real rc!

 

I luv light... Paul didn't contradict himself... all this shows is man KNOWS that God exists... It has NOTHING to do with them being able to seek after Him... actually it is a proof text of Paulinians that God reveals Himself and what does man do? HE WORSHIPS the creation! (uh em.. man) and supresses the truth! Why? Because he HATES God. He would rather serve the creation than God... You know... wanting man to be the powerful one instead of God? ... Like hmmm Arminianism?

 

If you are saying that Wes wants to be powerful in place of God, you have not been reading Wes's writing, you are instead reading what you want Wes's writings to say! Wes Knows without doubt that he is human, and incapable of being God! However, Wes is also not willing to accept his role and relationship with God as anything other than God created man to have! Wes recognizes that He has sinned and therefore fallen short of being exactly what God wanted. He recognizes that His sin has been atoned and the barrier to everlasting life removed thereby, and he recognizes that through faith He has that everlasting life just as Promised by God the Son. He also recognizes that when he confesses his sins that he still has the propensity to commit, that God is faithful and just to forgive him his sins and to cleanse him from ALL unrighteousness. That which is Cleansed from ALL unrighteousness, is made pure, just as Adam was made pure in the Garden before sinning. Therefore God has restored Wes, and Now Wes is Friends with God! Perfect? NO! Friends? YES! Capable and willingly serving my Lord and Savior Jesus, The Christ.

Like I illustrated on another topic. You are stranded on the highway, your car broke down. You know that there is such a thing as a towtruck, but you may not have seen one. All you know is that you are in trouble. So You call for help, and low and behold a towtruck shows up to get you off the highway to where you can get fixed.

You inherently Know that God exists, but until you get yourself into trouble, you don't think about God at all. But once in trouble, you cry out to the God that you know exists. That's why there are no athiests in foxholes! You cry out to God because you inherently KNOW that God exists, He's written that on your heart. Said another way you spirit has that tidbit of data stored there from conception.

Yes, Men do seek God! but it is usually associated with man's situation, and not with relationship building as in being friends with God. Few men really seek friendship with God. Adam, Eve, Seth, Abraham, Job, Noah, Jacob, Isaac, Moses, David, etc are typical examples of men who actually were "Friends with God". No, I am not saying they were Perfect, holy, men, only that they were friends with God. And we have no writings that tell us how they initially became friends with God. But, I can assure you that none of them except perhaps David, started out being friends with God. They all had to "hear" unto faith in God.

 

Why are you still trying to prove that God is a liar? Are you really that proud that you are going against the Word of God? Can't you see you are not argueing against me but GOD? I'm not the one saying this but God is! NNE SEEKS AFTER GOD...

Again you are arguing from naratives or imperatives that just give facts, but are not proof texts that form a formal arguement, you are giving evidence that can only be used in the subtancial part of the arguement... Don't you see your error?

The FORMAL arguement is WHAT GOD SAID. It is a premise... In man's NATURAL state man does not seek after God. I told you to find a verse that is an IMPERATIVE that says word for word MAN HAS THE ABILITY TO FIND GOD IN HIS NATURAL STATE...

These narative's I aren't proofs since they are they are AFTER the fact of the formal part of the arguement !! They where seeking after God because God already changed their hearts ! (Formal agruement) or else they wouldn't be able to do such i.e. No man seeks after God (formal agruement) Proper theology allows this.. your's on the other hand doesn't.

It's theology 101 that the Formal has to shape the the substancial. The universal has to shape the particulars... else you contradict yourself.

 

NO WHERE in chapter 3 of Romans does it say Paul is talking about a fool.. he's talking about ALL OF MANKIND ! If you want to qualify that as everybody being fools fine that can be the cherry on the top but it DOES NOT change the weight of Pauls POINT.. MAN DOES NOT SEEK GOD.
Why else do you think he makes that point? So we can understand that man wants to think he is essentially good (humanism, which Paul is attacking) and Paul is saying NO... you are BAD all bad, NNE SEEKS AFTER GOD. Quit trying to change Gods word... and talking about stepping back to see the "bigger picture". That's the whole point ! You want to stick to myopic verses that contradict the UNIVERSALS! Theology 101 for exegesis! The UNIVERSALS (big picture) are the proof texts, imperatives that are facts... THOSE set up the boundries to what is understood as doctrine. They CONFINE and DEFINE the particulars.. YOU are the one taking narratives and non proof texts and are trying to define the UNIVERSALS! HA HA HA

 

WHY does it matter???????

 

Have you considered the possibility that the statement attributed to God is not an imperitive at all, but rather an observation made by God as he observes man running around in his own contrived circles. God is saying, "Look at that human race, none of them seeks after God"! That's not the same as you saying that God declares that NO MAN CAN SEEK AFTER GOD!

What you are doing is not theology 101, it is myopic fixation!

Since this is the verse you seem hung up on, where does man get "understandeth? For if man understandeth, man then seeketh after God! So rc, tell us where does man get the "understandeth"?

 

Have you considered the possibility that the statement attributed to God is not an imperitive at all..

Wes... do you think I read that and impose my understanding on the text like you do? ...

I'm not THINKING it's imperative the GREEK (if you know it) IS in the IMPERATIVE! THAT'S what drives our exegesis! You CAN'T make what's in the imperative, inductive that's my whole point! You obviously do not know Greek... there's nothing wrong with that but you can not make statements on the grammer unless you want to look foolish.

The "understanding" comes from a heart that is CHANGED by God. He has mercy and opens up your eyes to you can have understanding and have the affections to believe. SALVATION is of THE LORD!

I luv Light... God hears NOT the prayers of the wicked. When those who without a heart after God pray not for salvation but for fleshly reasons i.e. life.... Why? to serve him? ... No to keep on their sinful, God hating ways... As I said horrible, man made analogies do nothing but muddy the waters. Stick with scripture which you can't provide... Just humbel yourselves and see "NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD".. NO NOT ONE! Quit making God out to be a liar!

 

Paul was correct and so was I ... The natural man DOES NOT SEEK AFTER GOD. YOur wrong!

John 9:31 We know that God does not listen to sinners, but if anyone is a worshiper of God and does his will, God listens to him.

Even a child can understand that statement...
man does not seek after God... simple, plain proof text.. not some man made analogy.

 

Well, it appears that john 9:31 dispells any possibility that God regenerates man before man becomes a believer. If God does not listen to sinners there is absolutely no way that God can hear confession of sin!

Then the second part of the verse says that man can be a worshiper of God, and God listens. Amazing? How does one get to be a worshiper if man is totally depraved and cannot seek God?

Even a child understands that!

 

God can listen to men... it's called regeneration. .... problem solved. YOUR the one with the problem.. God doesn't listen to the wicked and NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD...

Look at the previous posts... you can't find one imperative verse... then you say, "well it doesn't matter" and think that good enough and try to get me on another childish rabbit trail... I'm nailing you on this till you answer with an intelligent answer... NO MAN SEEKS AFTER GOD ! NO NOT ONE !

Where's the imperative reply that man can? And if you give me one more inductive, narrative I'm going to puke.

 

I will not answer your challenge because you refuse to listen!