Is Graham an apostate?

Discussion in 'Baptist Theology & Bible Study' started by Brother James, Jan 13, 2006.

  1. Brother James

    Brother James
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    - Graham also believes that men can be saved apart from the Name of Christ. (Source: 5/31/98 television interview with Robert Schuller, as reported in the May-June 1997, Foundation magazine.):

    SCHULLER: Tell me, what do you think is the future of Christianity?

    GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer -- you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. [How can anyone love Christ or know Christ and not be conscious of it (Rom. 8:9,16; 10:14; 1 John 3:24; 4:13; John 3:18)?] And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that -- the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said that God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world, or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus [How can this be? (cf. Acts 4:12; Rom 10:13)], but they know in their hearts that they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think that they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.

    SCHULLER: Well, what I hear you saying, that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?

    GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

    SCHULLER: [R.S. trips over his tongue for a moment, his face beaming, then says] This is fantastic! I'm so thrilled to hear you say that! There's a wideness in God's mercy!

    http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/graham/general.htm

    GRAHAM: There is. There definitely is.
     
  2. EdSutton

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    I dunno'. With so many good choices available, sometimes its kinda' hard to pick one over another. [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Ed
     
  3. Brother James

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    You've got a point brother. If all the stuff in this piece is true he's the antichrist. :eek:
     
  4. EdSutton

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    Oh yeah, check something for me, please Bro.James. I do tend to become just a wee bit suspicious of things that don't quite seem to add up. Who is the prophet that reported this interview, Isaiah, Amos, or Daniel? Let's see- The interview was reported in May/June 1997, and took place on May 31, 1998. I HAD believed that prophecies had ceased. Guess I was mistak...
    Ed
     
  5. Brother James

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    Check out the link. He provides documentation.
     
  6. Johnv

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    The "interview" in the OP pops up on posts from time to time. No one can ever find the whole interview, just this very brief snippet. Without the overall context given, it becomes extremely difficult, if not impossible, to judge this snippet with objectivity.

    When compared to the immense bulk of rock-solid Gospel preaching that Graham has done over his lifetime, the accusation of him being an apostate begins to lose objective credibility.
     
  7. Brother James

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    He said the same thing is USA today and Time magazine. Why don't you read the whole piece and check out his links and documentation.
     
  8. EdSutton

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    With all due respect to both 'James and John', I'm not likely to be found at the head of the fan club for any, nor leading the tar and feathers brigade either. My first 'funny' merely had to do with the 'interview' tete-a-tete with "the Rev. Dr. Billy..." and "the Rev. Dr. Robert..." and the question of is one of the two 'an apostate'? I found the question somewhat amusing. I'm not sure that I rate either of these two very gifted, well known and extremely talented individuals at the head of the "rock-solid Gospel preaching" class. But neither would I confuse him with Jim Jones, either. (More cookies and Kool-AID, anyone??) I did check the link, and I have the same observation. The dates don't jive there, either. I do not fault you for passing this along. I was merely suggesting that some more investigation is in order. The Internet has become a voluminous warehouse of information, without question. The Internet has also become a voluminous warehouse of dis-information. The challenge is which is which. The quote/cite purports to be a report of an interview. If we have learned anything in the last few years about 'reporting' we should observe that 'wishful thinking' is not a good starting point. Neither are hidden agendae. To me, the page you cited seems to have its share. Apologist and author Josh McDowell once did a piece titled "I've got a Satisfied Mind". Sorry, I don't.
    Ed
     
  9. Salamander

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    Even when he had the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing on his platform in Texas a few years ago?
     
  10. Johnv

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    Can you be specific? I can find nothing on the net verifying this. The BG Crusades typically don't invite specific choirs to sing. The choirs at these events are individuals who come to volunteer their talent, and no specific choir is recognized.
     
  11. bjonson

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    The quote is true and I once wrote the Billy Graham association about it. They sent a note back indicating that Mr. Graham wasn't "feeling well" or something like that.

    I think Billy is a disciple of Charles Finney, father of the modern "altar call" with its emotional appeal, etc.

    Read Ian Murray's excellent work, "Evangelicalism Divided" for a solid discussion of Billy's role in moving a huge portion of evangelicalism to ecumenicalism.
     
  12. bjonson

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  13. gb93433

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  14. EdSutton

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    bjohnson, salamander, et al- I checked the second link where the date of the 'alleged' Graham/Schuller interview does not jive with the that on the first link given by Bro.James. And neither is realistic considering the date reported for the issue of 'Foundation' magazine. By no stretch could I be considered an apologist for Billy Graham. (And if I could, I wouldn't.) But neither do I like to see unsubstantiated allegations thrown around, either. I would have no idea (and don't particularly care) whether or not the Mormon Tabernacle Choir was ever at some function or Crusade with or at the same time as Billy Graham. But I have seen the MTC perform on TV. From what I've seen over the years, the typical Graham stage would not hold the entire MTC, with the usual accompaniments of the crusades, and the choir. I would guess that one could get in touch with Crystal Cathedral and ascertain when and if in fact the interview happened. Not so sure about the alleged MTC event. However, let's be sure to be sure. Is that too much to expect? We have seen enough journalists exposed as frauds or dupes lately. Let's not add Christian journalists to the group.
    Ed
     
  15. Brice

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    Is Billy Graham an apostate? No. Unless you take a very conservative view of apostasy and in that case we ALL are guilty. Apostasy requires abandoning of ones religious faith, principles or cause. Just because you may not agree with him doesn’t mean he is an apostate. We need to learn as humans, when someone is doing the work of God (although we may not always agree with every aspect) to use restraint in making judgments. It stands to reason that at any given time we could say things that would not align with others thinking, especially in the limelight. Not to mention that we all have different feelings or ideals pertaining to our faith. The man hasn’t denied the trinity or the sacrificial atonement of Christ; he’s saying that that atonement could reach people who don’t have access to a Bible. Whether you agree with this or not is for another discussion, but labeling him an apostate is a bit overboard. Not to mention that the website quoted has an obvious agenda. Take a look at the others that they take to task over statements they have made. Here’s the link - http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/exposes/

    The list includes –

    Chuck Colson
    James Dobson
    David Jeremiah
    D. James Kennedy
    Josh McDowell
    Max Lucado
    John Maxwell
    R.C. Sproul
    Charles Stanley
    Chuck Swindoll
    Philip Yancey
    Rick Warren

    And many others… How Sad.
    :(
     
  16. bjonson

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    Ed,

    The interview happened. The Billy Graham Association confirmed it with correspondence. If I had this in email I would forward it to you.

    Perhaps the date is inaccurate, but the incident did happen.

    I don't know anything about the Mormon choir.
     
  17. gb93433

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  18. gb93433

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    I worked in the crusade in San Antonio a few years ago and there was certainly no Mormon choir present.

    Seems like another case of exaggerations and lies propagated by some who like to manipulate the ignorant and naive.

    I am very familiar with that church which propagates such junk. At one time I only lived a few miles away. They blast anything good and do not have any impact in the community except for laughing stock by the non-Christians. The word has gotten around about them and the non-Christians laugh at their nonsense. Tey are a black mark on the Christian community trying to have an impact on non-believers. It is a good thing they are out in the country off of the main road a short distance.
     
  19. tinytim

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    Some blame others because they themselves have something to hide.

    Anyone that would make a list condemning those on the first page, is suspicious.
     
  20. Brice

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    Agree. [​IMG] Very sad. :(
     

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