Is GW Bush an authentic Christian!?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Jay and Kelly, Nov 20, 2005.

  1. Jay and Kelly

    Jay and Kelly
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    The BGEA has said, and documented that he is a born again Christian. He claims that Jesus is his Lord and Savior. If you are a Calvinist, this answer is easy!! yes!

    If you judge him by everything he says, then this is between God and him. If we trust that he trully accepted Christ, then he is a sincere Christian. If you don't believe that he trully accepted Jesus; You are to be rebuked w/ tenderness. You have no judgment here, only distinctions, which are subjective.

    The most important point is: George W. Bush has made it very apparent that he has accepted Jesus Christ as his savior. Until he walks away from God, and calling our God a falsehood, then there is no way to challenge my opinion.

    I have covered a moderate arminian angle, as well as a Calvinist point. The only person who may argue about this, should be questioning their own salvation. This is a pitty! Praise Jesus for what he has done. Let's focus on the things that are praiseworthy, pure, righteous, and perfect. This is beautiful. Now, go ahead and fire away!!!! :D
     
  2. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    No one knows any person's eternal fate but that person and the Lord.

    All else is conjecture.
     
  3. Jay and Kelly

    Jay and Kelly
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    NOW I AM GETTING UPSET!!! This is what I said. I am trying to encourage some intellectual Christian discussion, as was suggested by another moderator. Is this site a little fickle at times? I am stating a case for our Presidents' faith. I have to do it in an interesting way, so to attract more good replies. I hope that C4K doesn't think that I am in need of a moderator with what I stated. The Calvinist view and the Arminian view would be slightly different in this case. I think that this makes for better discussion than," all else is conjecture". I can accept that comment, but I said it in my statement. Just not word for word. I am getting really burnt out, over the little things on this site. I don't think it is just me, either. I have discussed some things with other people, who have their complaints.

    I really only want to state what the Lord reveals to me. There are some absolutes that have been tested with scripture. I try to make it a practice to test any topic with scripture first. I am not perfect.. You are not perfect. Why don't we help each other to walk with the Lord a little closer. Remember we should avoid arguments; Philippians 2:14, Titus 3:9 !!

    So I enter my final plea. I have been instructed by different moderators to go to this area, then this one. I have found that I am better off finding out on my own. If the advice is a paradox, then I assume I should ignore it. Also, I am leashing out with a small amount of frustration at this point. I ask for your forgiveness, and the forgiveness from Jesus. Now, in furthering my point; I would like to add some things to some peoples story or question. But, I think that it is appropriate for me to acknowledge what I understood,agreed w/, disagreed w/. This is the best way to communicate. 2 people, one hearing the other, and replying etc.

    Maybe there needs to be a place for people that have posted to many times. Really, think about it. They have seen a lot of things, but they will reply as a veteran worker. I have found some of the best advice from some very blessed, and educated people, that speak little. But, you really want to listen to them, because they show you that they genuinely care about you first. This is so important. Who only wants to listen to words?

    WE NEED TO SHOW OTHERS THAT WE CARE ABOUT THEM, THEN REPLY TO A DISCUSSION point. Jesus wants us to have empathy,sympathy, and to be further sanctified. Praise God!
     
  4. NaasPreacher (C4K)

    NaasPreacher (C4K)
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    I am mystifed by your response.

    The question is "Is George Bush an aunthentic Christian?"

    My response is - "No one knows but him and the Lord. All else in conjecture."

    Opinions are always open to challange. If you disagree with me it is your turn to respond, not get upset.
     
  5. Joseph_Botwinick

    Joseph_Botwinick
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    I don't know if he is a Christian or not. Some of his beliefs are heretical and unScriptural. He is a good president with whom I agree on several issues. He is also a person with whom I disagree on several issues. I am sure we will find out for sure if he was a Christian or not one day when we are in heaven.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  6. StefanM

    StefanM
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    I see no definitive way to know one way or another. I generally think that he is a Christian, but I realize that I can't ever verify that beyond all doubt. Besides, I'm not really in a place to know since I've never been around him.
     
  7. Ps104_33

    Ps104_33
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    First of all, what is a Christian? Lets define this term and then see if GW fits. There are some on this board who think that the pope is a Christian. There are some who think that Billy Graham is on his way to hell. Madonna puts out a song with a spiritual theme and someone on this board thinks she has saw the light.
     
  8. ASLANSPAL

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    We have debated this on other topics especially
    his experience with Arthur Blessit and his embrace and non embrace of the moment he prayed
    with Arthur Blessit...and the gap of years ..then
    bush coming out giving Billy Graham all the credit.

    Really have not seen any clear evidence he was
    baptized after the Arthur Blessit prayer of salvation.

    It is a mystery ..I would say he is a baby
    Christian who takes a lot of advice from the
    evangelical community.

    Page 546-547 "The Family" Kitty Kelly
    Random House ISBN 0-385-50324-5


    Ever since George had come to Jesus in April 1984,his religion had ruled his life. He became
    born-again after the bottom dropped out of the oil
    boom in Midland,Texas. When the National Bank of
    Midland, the largest Independent bank in the nation,failed, fortunes crashed and overnight
    millionaires tumbled into life-wrecking debt."What
    happened in this town was a catastrophe,"said Bill
    Meyers, one of George's friends from Community Bible Study."Everyone was affected."In a desperate
    effort to rescue lives and restore morale,some of the church elders invited the evangelist Arthur
    Blessit to stage a revival.Among born-agains,
    Blessit was known as the man who had wheeled a ninety-six-pound cross of Jesus into sixty countries on six continents, making a place for himself in the THE GUINNESS BOOK OF RECORDS.

    Posters around Midland advertised the meeting as
    "A Mission of Love and Joy to the Permian Basin"
    Loudspeakers on flatbed trucks exhorted the populace to gather at the Chaparral Center in the evening" to experience the love of God, the grace
    of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the fellowship of
    the Holy Spirit." Residents lined the streets
    during the day and watched Blessitt roll his
    twelve-foot-high cross through the boomtown gone
    bust. Many bowed their heads as he passed. One
    little boy shouted," It's the Lord Jesus on wheels!"

    I was speaking during the day all around the city
    and carrying the cross in the streets," said Blessitt."It was the focus point of the city of
    Midland for that week with the meeting being
    broadcast on the local radio."

    George felt uncomfortable about attending the
    revival, but he listened to the broadcast.On
    the second day he asked his friend Don Pogue
    to arrange a meeting with Blessitt."I want to
    talk to him about Jesus", George said.

    The three men met the next day at the coffee shop
    in the Best Western hotel. As Blessitt recalled
    the meeting, George began with a few pleasantries, and then plunged in.

    "I want to talk to you about how to know Jesus
    and how to follow Him."

    “I was quite shocked at his direct and sincere approach,” said Blessitt. “I slowly leaned forward and lifted the Bible that was in my hand and asked him about his relationship with the Lord: ‘If you died this moment do you have the assurance you would go to heaven?’” “No.”

    “Then let me explain to you how you can have that assurance and know for sure that you are saved.”

    “I’d like that.”

    The evangelist read from the Book of Romans. He quoted Mark, John and Luke to the vice-president’s son, who held hands, repented his sins, and proclaimed Jesus Christ as his saviour.

    "It was an awesome and glorious moment,"recalled
    Blessitt. He later wrote in his diary on April 3,1984:" A good and powerful day--Led Vice Presidents Bush's son to Jesus--George Bush Jr!!
    This is great.Glory to God.But I won't speak about it."

    That coffee-shop conversion eventually led to
    George to give up tobacco,alcohol, and drugs
    at the age of 40, illustrating the wisdom of
    William James, who said" the only radical remedy
    I know for dipsomania is religiomania.

    In his memoir, A CHARGE TO KEEP,George W. credited his family's good friend the Reverend
    Billy Graham with planting "a mustard seed in my
    soul" He did not mention coming to Jesus with
    the flamboyant Blessitt and his cross on wheels
    ,figuring, perhaps, that Graham was more
    palatable to churchgoing voters.

    Now lets push back an be fair and hear it from
    Arthur Blessitt himself.

    Blessitt/Bush

    [​IMG]


    snippet:
    wrote him several times and we spoke on the phone a time or two during the next year or two. He was on my newsletter mailing also. I was carrying the cross around the world and gone sometimes for months at a time. I lost contact but often prayed for him. I would read of him first as president of the baseball team the Texas Rangers and then as Governor of Texas. As news of his interest in running for President of the United States appeared in the news I read of George W. Bush speaking openly of his following Jesus and having received Christ as his Savior. I was thrilled and kept praying for him.

    In his book “A charge to keep my journey to the White House” by George W. Bush pages 136-139, he tells in quite some detail about a visit with Rev. Billy Graham in Maine where he says “Reverend Graham planted a mustard seed in my soul”.

    snippet:
    I was trembling at the glorious work of the Holy Spirit. My wife Denise did not attend, as it would have cost another thousand for her.

    George W. Bush, the oilman I prayed with to receive Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord on April 3, 1984 has gone on to become President of the United States of America. All glory to God.

    I am publishing this on my website at www.blessitt.com. Why?

    1. President George W. Bush has openly written and spoken about his meeting with Billy Graham. Where he talked about Jesus and following Him.

    2. He has told of his Bible study with Don Evans and the Midland men’s Bible study group.

    3. President Bush has openly witnessed to and prayed with others to receive Christ as Savior as he did at a recent largee gathering of a thousand or so in Washington D.C. This was well reported by the news there and by eyewitnesses.

    4. President Bush has met and prayed with world leaders in the White House.

    5. The president is not ashamed of his relationship with Jesus and is open in his witness.

    6. I want to encourage people in witnessing for Jesus! I have always heard it said ‘the person you lead to Jesus may someday be President of the United States. Well it’s true!

    7. Be faithful in sharing Jesus with everyone. Jesus said “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every person”. Mark 16:15

    8. I pray that this very report will result in others believing and becoming true followers of Jesus.

    9. During the years of my walk around the world I have met and prayed with many leaders. One of the most public was with Yasser Arafat in Beirut, Lebanon during the war in 1982. CNN TV saw me praying with him in the streets and filmed it and reported it around the world.

    10. Billy Graham and I walked in the battlefields of Belfast, Northern Ireland in 1972 and prayed with people. He even took a cameraman along to record the walk and witness.

    11. I carried the cross in Midland. Had prayer in the city center and did a crosswalk. Often when I am carrying the cross people get in touch with me and want to talk and pray. So I consider this as just another part of the crosswalk witness. Along the way of the cross I have prayed with thousands, even millions of people. Many are household names and other unknown outside their own family and friends or area. To me it matters not. In my books, videos and website I tell experiences of praying with all kinds of people around the world the known and unknown.

    12. May God bless President George W. Bush in every way and my God bless each of you who read this report.


    http://msnbc.msn.com/id/6014570/

    Though he was always somewhat religious, Bush said, a turning point came in a private talk with the Rev. Billy Graham along the coast of Maine in 1985. Graham's words planted the "mustard seed in my soul" that eventually led to a decision to "recommit my heart to Jesus Christ," he wrote.
     
  9. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    The Parable of the Sower

    Mt. 13:5-6
    Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. NIV

    13:7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants.

    Which one?
     
  10. prophecynut

    prophecynut
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    Bush quote:

    "We can fool some of the people some of the time....And those are the ones we
    need to concentrate on"
     
  11. KenH

    KenH
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    We will not be Calvinist Christians in Heaven nor Arminian Christians in Heaven. We will simply be Christians in Heaven. Maybe we should start living that way while we are on this earth.
     
  12. kubel

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    Is he saved? That's between President Bush and Jesus Christ.

    http://www.blessitt.com/bush.html

    Records a time when Mr. Bush did a 1, 2, 3, Pray After Me.

    I would agree. I would also add, he is living a fake Christian life that is required of him by his part as a conservative Christian leader.
     
  13. Joseph_Botwinick

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    He is not a Christian leader. He is a secular leader. He is the president, not the pastor.

    Joseph Botwinick
     
  14. Pastor Larry

    Pastor Larry
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    Then just quote Scripture because that is all that God has revealed to us in this age.

    As for the question, no one truly knows. He seems to have as good a testimony as just about any politician. Eternity will tell.
     
  15. Daisy

    Daisy
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    Jay and Kelly doesn't seem to understand that you are a person and a regular poster as well as a moderator. I think he must have authority issues the way he freaks out when you post - he seems to think you are "moderating" him when you reply. Oh well.
    I agree with you that we can't know if Bush (or anyone else) is or will be saved.
     
  16. carpro

    carpro
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    Is GW Bush an authentic Christian!?


    Certainly.

    I have no reason at all to believe otherwise.
     
  17. hillclimber

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  18. hillclimber

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    posted by AP
    What does that have to do with his salvation?
     
  19. Priscilla Ann

    Priscilla Ann
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    George W. Bush may be a Christian, but certainly he is a Christian lacking in compassion and integrity. He is certainly not a good witness to the Christian faith.

    As for his salvation, only God knows...
     
  20. carpro

    carpro
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    ,
    I don't believe subjective human opinion (often wrong) counts for much with God.
     

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